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Forums > CSDb Feedback > Handling recracks, sids, etc
2022-06-26 01:01
Fungus

Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 477
Handling recracks, sids, etc

How about adding linking for sources of things.

If something is a re-crack you should be able to link the original work.

If a SID is used in a demo or other production and ripped from a game or elsewhere, you should be able to link the original work.

This would solve a lot of problems by making it clear that something is a derivative work or uses the assets created by someone else, with or without their permission. This would also solve the problems of incorrect credits being assigned to productions that use other assets or derivative works. Assigning credits to people who had nothing to do with the production is not a proper credit.
 
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2022-06-27 15:11
Didi

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 448
In terms of cracks I could imagine some kind of "Based on" link/relation maybe with a pre-defined selectable attribute e.g. "Import of", "Recrack of", "Trainer of". With that link you could build up chains like:
Crack <- Trainer of Crack <- Import of Trainer <- Recrack of Import
With this you could also display related releases from the base releases e.g. for USA/Canadian cracks which were often base for a lot of imports, or untrained crack which were base for trainer versions.
May also make sense for demos and mags which were spread/imported/fixed by others.
2022-06-27 19:17
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 1504
To me it doesn't matter where the original crack info of re-crack is mentioned (extra flag, trivia, comments) but I find it insufficient to set the flag and not _somehow/somewhere_ tell re-crack of which release like here Spelunker

With unauthorized use of music I'd be fine if we keep mentioning the HVSC .SID path and stop crediting but it would mean a lot of work to undo what has been the practice for about two decades now...

about the "etc" - loaders? What really made me frown a little was when people started to give code credits in Unofficial Tiny SID Compo 2022 when they used trackers they did not code on their own...
2022-06-28 18:46
F7sus4

Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 82
Quoting TheRyk
What really made me frown a little was when people started to give code credits in Unofficial Tiny SID Compo 2022 when they used trackers they did not code on their own...


Isn't there some sort of widespread inconsistency regarding this subject, anyway?

The coder of any tracker does not get the credit with music releases (unless he/she coded something extra for that particular music piece), but the coder of the loader actually does (yay Krill's lovely profile).

Yes, people "got used to it", but if we put the CSDb's own custom aside, there's very little logical explanation for it to be that way. (And inb4: "B-b-b-ut loader is an integral part of the demo and it utilizes someone elses code". Well, so is the music player, except it doesn't load data, but bleep-blops the music out of your SID unit.) :-)
2022-06-28 21:14
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 1504
I absolutely agree, it doesn't make sense at all and some rather random tradition is all there is to explain it - which doesn't make it any logical or consistent. We don't credit Zagon for any exomized release or CRT for any gfx release done with PixCen either.
2022-06-30 09:40
Steppe

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1504
My 2 cents, crediting loaders (and trackers or packers and other below the surface frameworks) isn't really helpful and clutters up the db.
Common sense applied, if someone did a remix or hommage of a famous painting, the artist would get credit with a side mention of the reference work. But nobody would credit the brand of the canvas, the colours or the pens used.
2022-06-30 19:07
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 10408
Quote:
ut nobody would credit the brand of the canvas, the colours or the pens used.

actually there were quite some demos that did credit all the tools (and their makers)
2022-06-30 21:49
TheRyk

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 1504
Groepaz: Yeah, nothing wrong with people DOING that, but that doesn't mean CSDb bothers to store any such details.

I vaguely remember trackmos with credits parts even telling whether they used Relaunch or Notepad++ as an editor which Crossassembler, which cruncher and what not...

But most of these super-detailled credits are even kept apart from the actual release in an extra file - maybe because no one cares/everyone knows which tools and their authors are great anyway, so hardly anyone out there wants to read about it.

Current agenda just ain't consistent, but your criticism also ain't always consistent. You can't say: Rob Hubbard had nothing to do with the release/wasn't asked, so music credits are stupid, and at the same time defend Loader credits - pick a f--ing line :P
2022-06-30 23:02
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 10408
Where did i defend loader credits? I just replied to Steppe, stating a fact - no more no less.
2022-07-01 14:04
Steppe

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1504
Quote: Quote:
ut nobody would credit the brand of the canvas, the colours or the pens used.

actually there were quite some demos that did credit all the tools (and their makers)


Sure, these tools are often mentioned in the end credits, just like in most movies end credits (to use an analogy again). I was just saying that it's not especially useful for the CSDb credits fields.
2022-07-04 07:26
Didi

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 448
I remember crediting loader started in demos in the 90s. The first credits I remember was to K.M./Taboo, which then was continued by others.
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