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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1922 |
Change of rules - What kind of Events belong into the Database
<Post edited by Count Zero on 6/4-2016 19:12>
Quite a while ago the mod team started a general discusion on updating the CSDb rules regarding several aspects. To start off "slowly" we started by finding an agreement on changes towards "Meetings" (Parties!). The result can be found at https://csdb.dk/help.php?section=rules under Section V Paragraph 10.
Under 1. we added "C64" to point out that there is a strong desire towards this special 8bit machine. Point 2. was reworded slightly to be more precise.
Both points combined lead to surely debatable combinations and entries but basically it _IMHO_ boils down to:
- defining "historical" regarding C64 scene content and events
- the value of releases
For the "historical" part we have choosen to start off at 1st of January 2000 (to show how liberal we actually are) ending on the 1st of January 2016. You guess right. We found tons of entries without releases and pages requiring a definite update. Overall a quick glance was taken at about 500 of the nearly 2500 "meetings" revealing a horrible picture:
- about 15-20% of the entries simply don't deserve the entry here unless a release gets added (meeting in a pub to spend money on beer is _NOT_ making scene history!)
- MANY of the added links don't work anymore and it is beyond our understanding why http://sil.ly.ip.addy/party.html suddenly doesn't work anymore...
- entries with no linked releases AND only 2-3 sceners attending. This excessive info won't turn the meeting entry into an entry of historic relevance at all - not now and not in the far future really. Entries with no linked releases and MANY sceners attending? Where is at least some party report? YOU SCENERS maintain the database and your entries! It is not up to anyone else to report on how the meeting turned out!
So, the following 61 events were deleted. You can currently not access them. We will restore them on request: meaning "you found the missing release" to be added to that particular entry is one of few reasons to do so. Yes, this MEANS you can finally dig out the disk you saved the scrolltext on at $party, link it to the intro screen and release something!
The list below also means pure drama!
Type: Internal Meeting
Held between: 1 January 2000 and 1 January 2016
Wrath Designs Minibreak 2004
Villa Bellocchio
TRIAD Epiphany 2012
Tcp01
Cosa Nostra Meeting #1 - 2008
X'2006 Afterparty
Focus meeting #5
Focus Meeting #6
fuzikix meeting #1
Klr01
10 Print "Hello World!"
Arise Demomeeting 3.0
Arsenic + Friends Meeting / Hamburg 2014
The Barn 5
TKH
Stonehead Secret EHEC-Meeting
Swiss Pirates Reunion 2002
Swiss Pirates Reunion 2010
TGH 6
Sthd friday night v1109
Silicon Ltd. Meeting #1
Schlimeisch 2003
ROTY Awards 2009
Schlimeisch 2002
Project Amundsen 2008
Project Amundsen 2005
Out of Güll 2010
Makrel & Data 2014
Kraze Meeting 12/2007
Koling Birthday Party 2006
Danish Gold New Years Party 2001/2002
Danish Gold Internal Party Feb 2002
Cascade Meeting 2008
Camelot (K)olding Meeting 2011
Arsenic Elite Mactron Investigation Conference Analyzation
Plushmeeting Zeitlarn 2015
...to be continued (too many links)... |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1922 |
<Post edited by Count Zero on 6/4-2016 20:14>
...more...
Type: LAN Party
Held between: 1 January 2000 and 1 January 2016
Remedy 2004
TRAX 2000
Birdie 10
Birdie 11
Birdie 12
Birdie 13
Birdie 14
DreamHack Winter 2002
Dreamhack Winter 2005
Flashparty '00
Flashparty '01
Flashparty '04
Play Expo 2013
Type: C64 Only Party
Held between: 1 January 2000 and 1 January 2016
Back in Time Live 2007
Back In Time Live 2013
C64 Revival Party 1
C64 Revival Party 2
C64 Revival Party 3
C64 Revival Party 4
Dutch Sprite 2001
Commodoremania 2015 Compo
Out of Orderia 2005
Out of Orderia 2007
Samar Meeting 2016
Now we let the drama and discussion begin. We feel there are some entries which will make you go YIEK! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
Quote:Type: LAN Party
why does that even exist? |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2924 |
<Post edited by Moloch on 10/4-2016 20:01>
Agreed, LAN Party category should be removed.. |
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Zeldin
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 33 |
As this affects my group, I only want to point out, that I agree on what Count Zero wrote and I fully support the decision of the moderation team. So no drama from me, sorry :-) About the "Cascade Meeting 2008": not that it is of much interest, but we were really working on a demo on this meeting. Of course, and as always, we failed to finish it, though. I am still faithful, that we will release at least some of the remains... ahem, well... someday. |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1922 |
Zeldin: I am sure with nowadays speed on packing tools you'll easily master the release soonish. Just let us know about restoring your entry so the release, party report and converted slide show of images taken back then can be added.
Please do not create a new entry! Would just raise the ID without need :) |
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Cresh
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 354 |
Just release anything.
Crap scroller, PETSCII screen, etc.
And then your meeting belongs to c64 scene legacy according to CSDb nazi mods. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4720 |
Quote: Just release anything.
Crap scroller, PETSCII screen, etc.
And then your meeting belongs to c64 scene legacy according to CSDb nazi mods.
What's your problem, Cresh? Nazi mods? And speaking of releasing stuff, well, that comes from the right person. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1646 |
Calm down boys! It's only d.a.t.a.! Mods are always nazis and users are always whiners. That's a natural law. Just look at what happened with Gpz when he stopped being a mod :D |
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Isildur
Registered: Sep 2006
Posts: 275 |
Yay, the most important issue of CSDB will be fixed, at least!
Thanks God!
Where's editing posts and voting issues on that most important things to fix list? |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2924 |
<Post edited by Moloch on 6/4-2016 00:28>
Quoting IsildurYay, the most important issue of CSDB will be fixed, at least!
Thanks God!
Where's editing posts and voting issues on that most important things to fix list?
Now that you've whined about it those two will go back to #19 and #20 on the list. Happy? ;)
Nobody on the staff reads this comment and says "Oh boy! Someone has whined and bitched for the 1000th time, we better get working on that immediately!".
BTW - "voting issues" isn't a topic of discussion for the staff |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
I was not aware of such a todo list. Where is it, and more importantly, where can I bitch about it? |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2924 |
Quoting CompyxI was not aware of such a todo list. Where is it, and more importantly, where can I bitch about it?
Your bitching can go right here -> /dev/null |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
Haha, works like a charm on my box. But seriously though, is there a wishlist for CSDb?
Edit: didn't mean to hijack this thread |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2924 |
Quoting CompyxHaha, works like a charm on my box. But seriously though, is there a wishlist for CSDb?
I think a few threads on the forums are sort of a wishlist. Not sure if anyone in the staff ever posted a real wishlist before, I guess maybe groepaz would have been the one to post it in the past. |
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uka
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2010
Posts: 2 |
Maybe these small events are less important.. no releases, small number of participants, whatever.. but CSDb is good places to keep info about it (even if it's only party name, date and list of visitors). Is it part of scene history or not? (;
...and the CSDb goal say:
Quote:To gather as much information as possible about the C64 scene. The sceners, the groups, the releases and events, AND AS MUCH INFORMATION ABOUT THESE AS POSSIBLE. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
it says "c64 scene". not "booze scene at camp site". how hard is it to understand really. *sigh* |
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Tim
Registered: May 2003
Posts: 77 |
Got another one to add to the list: X'2006 Afterparty |
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Grue
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 161 |
Extaz 2006
There are releases on this meeting, but they're currently "lost". We already found some, and looking for the rest but it'll take some time..
Shall we create the meeting entry again when we're able to locate those releases? |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2924 |
<Post edited by Moloch on 6/4-2016 19:17>
Quoting Grue[PETIns] Extaz 2006
There are releases on this meeting, but they're currently "lost". We already found some, and looking for the rest but it'll take some time..
Shall we create the meeting entry again when we're able to locate those releases?
No, you can send a message to the moderators or PM one directly and the entry can be undeleted. |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1922 |
Thanks, Tim and Grue. Extaz 2006 was restored and is awaiting your upload. X'2006 Afterparty deleted - updating the top post accordingly. |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3186 |
Restore Remedy 2003 please, there was 1 sid tune by Insider, found at https://files.scene.org/browse/parties/2003/remedy03/c64/music/ |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4720 |
Quote: Restore Remedy 2003 please, there was 1 sid tune by Insider, found at https://files.scene.org/browse/parties/2003/remedy03/c64/music/
Done. Add a comment about that release please. :) |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1922 |
LAN Party removed, Copy party added.
Even though quite a few parties in the late 90s and early 2000s were dubbed "LAN Party" that's not really something a party is categorized nowadays we feel. Therefore "LAN Party" is up likely going to be removed as category soon.
Demo/Copy party reflects things well enough. Doesn't really matter which way bits are duplicated. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4720 |
Quote: Done. Add a comment about that release please. :)
Fixed: Candybag har fotsvett. |
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Cobra/Samar
Registered: Feb 2006
Posts: 3 |
Meetings and rest small event's are part of scene history c64. But admin and people as Count Zero decided to delete history.
No comments. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3048 |
Quoting FranticCJust look at what happened with Gpz when he stopped being a mod :D
Buhah ;-) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
if only you know WHY. maybe at some point i will disclose
and no-small meetings without releases contribute nothing to "c64 history". fuck off |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: if only you know WHY. maybe at some point i will disclose
and no-small meetings without releases contribute nothing to "c64 history". fuck off
I strongly disagree.
It was those meetings that made me a scener way back in the days. The friendship, the camaraderie, trying to outdo each other with new routines .. if it wasn't for these meetings a lot of us would never have been part of the scene at all.
That being said I don't care if you remove these events here (2 of them were Focus meetings). I've given up on trying to understand the logic behind CSDb a long time ago ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
the problem is that you have to draw a line somewhere, and defining where that line is - which is not easy to do. and tying it to actual c64 releases is one way to do this, and most importantly its one way that leaves little room for endless discussion. (and no, "common sense" is a terrible idea for this kind of things).
eg following your logic - i met and got friends with most of my later group mates in school, i spent a lot of time with them in local youth club, and i was introduced to Jihad and Florasoft in secondary school. and i used to spend countless hours in the schools computer room to chat with them, learn some basic crap, and copy c64 games. this is what ultimatively made me a scener, i guess.
however, all this is trivia info at best, and hardly interesting in "the big picture" (a lot of people could tell similar stories) - and thats why i dont add a couple dozen entries for meeting friends and chatting with them about c64 stuff, its simply pointless and non interesting for anyone. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
I don't necessarily disagree with the line that you draw, I disagree with your statement that "small meetings without releases contribute nothing to c64 history". Because as important as CSDb is to our scene, ultimately it doesn't define it ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
of course not, the c64 scene is mostly defined by c64 scene releases (thats what divides it from other social contexts) - which is the whole point afterall :) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Interesting .. because while I of course fully appreciate the 'what' (releases), to me the most important aspect of the scene is the 'who' (the people and the the way we work together).
But given your point of view I understand the way CSDb is managed a bit better now ;) |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2581 |
Wouldn't at least the existence of an invitation and/or a party report in a mag somewhere also justify an entry? One could argue that as soon as somebody bothered to write about it, it somehow did become part of scene history. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
perhaps, see what count zero wrote above. i'd still prefer seeing some kind of scroller or so at least :) |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1922 |
I personally see no problem in entries with "just" an invitation - at least link SOMETHING to it that is 8bit binary. Would have expected some notemaker files on one or the other entry ...
For events there is also the possibility to add a party report. NONE of the 500 or so checked entries had one. Many people adding entries here obviously think even copy/pasting some blog post about the party is too awkward and too much work.
IMHO its much about maintenance. Any database is just as good as the properly verified and complete content. Link rot is a funny topic as well.
@cobra - are you the dark side of Samar or sumthing? Your group mates seem not to be such bollocks. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
I was under the impression that at least one of the Focus meetings had a party report but if not I'm more than willing to add one if still possible. |
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Compyx
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631 |
I second that. I even added my own experiences in the comment section. Now I know that Ben & I getting fucked up doesn't constitute scene history, but it sure added to our scene history ;) |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1922 |
Focus meeting #5 ( "Revolt of the Slaves", 5 attendants ) and Focus Meeting #6 ( "Welcome to Ben's house", 6 attendants, can't wait for meeting #80 ... ) had nothing attached to it at all.
TDJ: whenever you found your report packaged into the ready to upload FLI upscroller, just say so :) |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498 |
Every scene event is about boozing at the camp fire, but not every "boozing at the camp fire" event is a scene event. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 942 |
Quote: Focus meeting #5 ( "Revolt of the Slaves", 5 attendants ) and Focus Meeting #6 ( "Welcome to Ben's house", 6 attendants, can't wait for meeting #80 ... ) had nothing attached to it at all.
TDJ: whenever you found your report packaged into the ready to upload FLI upscroller, just say so :)
hah! there are a bunch of unreleased ideas and scetches, per usual. |
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VIC
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 73 |
"Makrel & Data 2014" and "Camelot (K)olding Meeting 2011" deleted?!??? IT'S AN OUTRAGE!!! ;)
 |
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Scarzix
Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 143 |
Quote: "Makrel & Data 2014" and "Camelot (K)olding Meeting 2011" deleted?!??? IT'S AN OUTRAGE!!! ;)
I guess, I better get that demo-creator ready for Camelot usage so you can release something again soon ;-)
I just got another idea for CSDB.dk clean up.
Let us adjust groups and releases based on how many years since release, so after each year your releases looses half a point...
Same goes for groups who does not release anything... I wonder how the top 10 would look in each category after those adjustments.
Now we could have lists of ACTUAL ACTIVE TOP lists, which would be cool, I think. |
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VIC
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 73 |
Quote: I guess, I better get that demo-creator ready for Camelot usage so you can release something again soon ;-)
I just got another idea for CSDB.dk clean up.
Let us adjust groups and releases based on how many years since release, so after each year your releases looses half a point...
Same goes for groups who does not release anything... I wonder how the top 10 would look in each category after those adjustments.
Now we could have lists of ACTUAL ACTIVE TOP lists, which would be cool, I think.
 ;) |
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NecroPolo
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231 |
Quoting VIC ;)
Wow. That .gif gal completely reminds me one whom I "double-score-dungeon"-ed on a regular base some, what, 15-18 years ago? |
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Perplex
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 255 |
Quoting NecroPoloWow. That .gif gal completely reminds me one whom I "double-score-dungeon"-ed on a regular base some, what, 15-18 years ago?
Double-score-dungeon, eh?
"Charlie couldn't believe he was being allowed into the chocolate factory; his girlfriend has been dead against it for years!" |
