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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2107 |
Anonymous Downvoters / Haters
Removed from comments to Just Follin Around
Quote:
User Comment
Submitted by saulc12 [PM] on 21 May 2021
I should just point out that I am not letting anything ruin my day, I am not distressed or in tears and I do not feel the need for validation. The reason this bothers me so much is as I said already, I don't like spite or cowardice and I am not the only target, plus as I said it then makes voting (especially in things like competitions) pointless. It is not how I approach the scene and I find it disappointing and frustrating that some people do approach the scene in this way.
Thanks for everybody's input and comments though.
User Comment
Submitted by saulc12 [PM] on 21 May 2021
Chiuhino, I am not saying that I cannot be voted low for every tune I make, after all if somebody really doesn't like what I do then they don't like it, what I am saying is that it is obvious when this is just default and deliberate downvoting (and I am not the only person that has to put up with this). If the majority of votes are in the 8 to 10 range and somebody then comes along and always votes 1 or 2 this is not somebody expressing an opinion, it is just spite. As I said before, it then makes the whole voting process pointless. I accept that music can be quite divisive, but not to that extent. I don't understand why you would defend the actions of shit-posters and trolls.
User Comment
Submitted by iAN CooG [PM] on 21 May 2021
> ban anonymous votes
you have no idea how many so called "friends" would be finally revealed to be actually back-stabbers if that would happen and all anonym votes became public :D
I was a mod in here and I could see the voters even if set to anonym ;)
All I have to add is: don't let a SINGLE low voter ruin your day, everyone in here sooner or later will get his own personal "hater" because the system allows it, but the majority of positive votes should compensate the existance of a single idiot who doesn't have the guts to tell you what he thinks in your face of you or your releases.
User Comment
Submitted by Steel [PM] on 21 May 2021
Saul i really love this and you shouldn't care about that single downvote hater. haters gonna hate who cares ;) take my 10
User Comment
Submitted by chuinho [PM] on 21 May 2021
Saul, but what you say is basically: "i can't be voted low for every tune i make" - i think you can, and this possibility applies to absolutely everyone, even LMan or Linus. there is no objective value of what we do and each musician has his/her own style, which may be - for individual cases - annoying, hence the downvotes.
still, i really understand your sentiment - if i wasn't so much a relativist, i'd post comments very similar to yours ;)
User Comment
Submitted by SKR [PM] on 21 May 2021
If I could change only one thing about csdb, it would be to ban anonymous votes ... but well, that topic has been discussed many times.
@saulc: I think that as an artist you shouldn't even care at all about (down)votings, or even make your contributions to csdb dependent on them.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some manage to express their opinion honestly, others dont. The usual downvotes seem to come from people that are too bitter, manipulative or poisonously ambitious to be able to make an appreciative judgment about other's work at all.
Keep up your work and keep posting your stuff to CSDB. I would not want to miss any of it, just due to some lame downvoting.
User Comment
Submitted by saulc12 [PM] on 21 May 2021
I don’t have any tears, I am just annoyed. I stayed away from CSDB for a year because I got annoyed about this stuff before, and I now regret coming back on, because absolutely nothing has changed. I said it before that this kind of stuff brings out the worst in me and I don’t want to be in that position.
User Comment
Submitted by Stabile Altbauten [PM] on 21 May 2021
Saul I get also low Votes but it do not matter because i know what is right Inside of Myself . No Reason for Tears.! Let us become a group we can become Low Voted People from CSdB how sounds that Saul ? Put a smiley on your face Yours Micha
User Comment
Submitted by saulc12 [PM] on 20 May 2021
Chuinho, somebody downvoting every single thing that you post is not in any way about whether they like the music or not; it is shit-posting and trolling and it makes any voting in competitions or otherwise on here absolutely fucking pointless. What’s more it is always anonymous and the fuckers who do it never post a corresponding comment with any critique or explanation as that would mean that they outed themselves. Funnily enough I don’t care whether I win or lose, I just can’t abide spite or cowardice.
User Comment
Submitted by chuinho [PM] on 20 May 2021
Saul, the overall compo result will NOT be calculated basing solely on csdb votes.
btw. countless times i was disappointed with what i could describe as 'downvoting', but i suppose it's just people not liking my music at all. it kills motivation and does damage to self-esteem, but we're in the most abstract of arts, in which anyone can vote low without giving an objective reason.
User Comment
Submitted by Matt [PM] on 20 May 2021
Initially I wanted to say that you shouldn't worry too hard about the downvoters but to be honest I would just be as pissed off as you are.
What the fuck people!
Great tune by the way.
...
User Comment
Submitted by Joe [PM] on 20 May 2021
Lovely tune!
User Comment
Submitted by theK [PM] on 20 May 2021
Really nice tune!
Sad to see the behavior from some people. :-/
User Comment
Submitted by Oswald [PM] on 20 May 2021
agree with saul, you should be ashamed guys. disgusting what you do.
User Comment
Submitted by saulc12 [PM] on 20 May 2021
I see the down voters are in again, just so one again there’s no fucking point in me ever entering into any competition on here because some spiteful twats will vote down every time, and they cottoned on to the fact that just voting one has no impact, so that’s me not posting on CSDB any more. Utterly fucking pointless.
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 113 |
> you have no idea how many so called "friends" would be finally revealed to be actually back-stabbers if that would happen and all anonym votes became public :D
Allowing people to troll around is a good choice by that logic. There's hardly any better motivation for honesty than transparency. So, reveal them.
I get where Michał's "relativist" argument comes from, but let's not jump into the pitfall of post-modernistic thinking, or shall we? Sure, many things are subject to preference and (more or less educated) opinion, but 1-2/10 basically translates to: "no quality was provided", "what should work fails to do so in a blatant/horrible way", and "no basic standards were met". Is this honestly really how Saul's production performed?
Sure, there's the other side of the coin and it's "vote 9-10 or you're a hater" attitude, though this had to become a thing at some point at CSDb (at least this is how I see it as a 2018 newcomer), however, the older stuff definitely has more widespread voting tendencies.
So, maybe meet somewhere in the middle guys. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2107 |
I think more than enough people gave good advice how to deal with the phenomenon.
In addition: Keep in mind that discussing this over and over again might be feeding the troll, i.e. haters might rather wank a lot when they see they manage to get on people's nerves than stop hating. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5034 |
not solving the problem leads to discussing this over and over again. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5034 |
and for the record:
agree with saul, you should be ashamed guys. disgusting what you do. |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1060 |
Quote:you have no idea how many so called "friends" would be finally revealed to be actually back-stabbers if that would happen and all anonym votes became public :D
Just fucking do it already. Give people a week's warning so they can go and change their votes if they can't stand to be exposed as the miserable shits that they are. Or just remove all anonymous votes altogether, it's not like there's any value in preserving it.
The way it's implemented now just makes the scene a shittier place. |
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Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 838 |
To me, comments are more valuable (way more) than a vote.
Just get rid of the whole voting system on here. This discussion has been boring since Yoko TV's 1-votes and death threats. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1635 |
Agree with conrad. |
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 321 |
> I see the down voters are in again
> I do not feel the need for validation
hrmmmmm
> It is not how I approach the scene and I find it disappointing and frustrating that some people do approach the scene in this way
people vote how they like. be thankful you didn't get lower, saul. it's currently at 9.1. going by the stats, i can't see what the fuss is about. it's not like it got hammered with 20 votes for 3 etc. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1294 |
Ok, that's it....
I'm more than certain 99% of downvotes for Saul are from single MSL guy. I don't want to disclose handle as it might have too big personal consequences from my perspective. I cannot verify all of them as I'm not a mod here but some cases ('83 compo) are IMHO certain. I just want to say I'm personally disgusted and fed up with this thing going on, and I believe the rest of the MSL also don't condone it in any way, being in general positive bunch of guys who really appreciate all art here. I urge mods to take some definitive stance on it. |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
What Jammer said! |
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psych
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 141 |
What Jammer and Linus said! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11164 |
It's funny to see this discussion popping up again and again :)
Votes being anonymous is the problem? Really? Here is what will happen when votes will be all public:
- a lot of people will stop voting alltogether. Including some of the most active voters
- a lot of people will, by peer preassure, vote higher than they want, just to not hurt someones feelings
as a result, the votes will be even more useless than they are today.
And every time i see someone whining about the evil downvoters, he gets a downvote from me, because i am evil and i like to see the drama about something that is completely irrelevant to any half sane human being.
Release more, vote less. Don't let shit music spoil your day. Or anyones opinion about shit music. Or anyones babble about anyones votes about anyones shit music.
Welcome Ryker! My condolences :)
PS: the sane thing to do would be removing the ability to see the vote statistics completely. It serves no other purpose than creating drama and anger, and it is the one effective source for placing down- and upvotes, malicious and strategic nature. once its gone, all voting drama is gone. |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 113 |
Quote:haters might rather wank a lot when they see they manage to get on people's nerves than stop hating.
Not really. It's a choice between passively accepting the damage whenever it's done (anonymity) and preventing the damage from being done (transparency). Some people will walk miles to do their part solely out of spite.
Quote:a lot of people will, by peer preassure, vote higher than they want, just to not hurt someones feelings
That's assumption, while hatevotes are fact. And it's still a pretty petty reason considering the amount of damage getting done. In Saul's case, it's a singular vote, but swarming (especially from group of closely related friends) was also a case. Which wouldn't be one, if it was obvious who caused it.
All reasons provided to keep status quo fall into apologetism in one way or another. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1294 |
It's not about hurting feelings - some actions are purely deliberate and it's like letting maniac killer loose and calmly eating one's dinner, knowing this fact all the time. No, just no. |
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Mibri
Registered: Feb 2018
Posts: 209 |
Quote: To me, comments are more valuable (way more) than a vote.
Just get rid of the whole voting system on here. This discussion has been boring since Yoko TV's 1-votes and death threats.
I think this is a really good shout. I would like to see CSDb function as a database and a forum for comments/discussion - since it is great at being these things - but leaving voting to demoparties (online-only compos can use their own external voting systems, like what we had with the '83 compo, etc). Yes, sometimes I vote on releases on here, but I don't think I would miss having the ability to do so if it were taken away. :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11164 |
Quote:It's not about hurting feelings - some actions are purely deliberate and it's like letting maniac killer loose and calmly eating one's dinner, knowing this fact all the time. No, just no.
I'd dare to say the same is true for up- and downvoting. Its quite (and i mean QUITE) obvious in a lot of mediocre so-so entries, which get 10s and 9s from the crowd. At the end, the so called up- and downvotes cancel out each other.
Saul got a very good 8.9 score. If ppl didnt know the vote stats, there'd be zero reason to complain. Remove this bullshit feature, problem solved. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1294 |
It's quite easy to distinguish honest score from being arse with self-esteem complexes - especially when you see how votes are generally distributed. I'm very sugar-biased with scale myself but I still can recognize that somebody voting much lower than me did it with merit. I vote high because I just learnt to appreciate certain aspects of seemingly unpopular things over the years. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2107 |
@MSL issues and call for harsh CSDb action:
How about in the first place MSL groupmates sorting that one out (in more than one meaning), either by talking to the person in question or maybe kicking him out of your group?
However, as there is such a rule as
Quote:CSDb is a place for facts and factual discussions of scene related issues. It is therefore not permissible to use CSDb as a medium for any kind of personal attacks/discriminating or foul language (using the forum, oneliners, comments on CSDb entries, PM's, deliberate downvoting or anything similar), and any such will be punished with temporarily or permanent exclusion from the site.
we might have no choice but looking into the particular case or change that rule. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11164 |
Quote:It's quite easy to distinguish honest score from being arse with self-esteem complexes - especially when you see how votes are generally distributed
Thats what you think. But its still all about taste. And its totally fine to dislike something that everyone else loves. And to vote the single 1 where everyone else voted 10s and 9s. And again, if the stats were not visible, the problem would not exist. at all. |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quote: @MSL issues and call for harsh CSDb action:
How about in the first place MSL groupmates sorting that one out (in more than one meaning), either by talking to the person in question or maybe kicking him out of your group?
However, as there is such a rule as
Quote:CSDb is a place for facts and factual discussions of scene related issues. It is therefore not permissible to use CSDb as a medium for any kind of personal attacks/discriminating or foul language (using the forum, oneliners, comments on CSDb entries, PM's, deliberate downvoting or anything similar), and any such will be punished with temporarily or permanent exclusion from the site.
we might have no choice but looking into the particular case or change that rule.
We're onto it. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 458 |
the problem is, why taking away the voting possiblity from 'arses with complexes'? how do you distinguish them from the GOOD SANE PEOPLE? this distinction is elitist and cronyist to a significant degree :(
come on, as much as i strongly disagree with 2s being cast on Saul (by the way Saul, can you please learn to spell my handle correctly?), i'm all for leaving the system as-is or, even better, making all votes anonymous.
because Groepaz's assumptions about people ceasing to vote after removing the anonymity option have solid base, i think. have you noticed that the public score is usually (if not always) higher than the overall score? that's because when you go public, you have to deal with your scene friends feeling hurt and maybe even messages received from the people you supposedly downvoted. i for one got many back in the days and the result was me limiting myself to friendly 9s and 10s throughout the following years.
being an artist come with critique, some of it exaggerated and undeserved. people with fragile egos should be prepared for that. this is how it works irl. if you see the demoscene as a sort of alternate reality, a safe haven and a bowl of whipped cream - that is enchanting, but would lead to further mutual phallus-licking and not much more. |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Quote: Quote:It's not about hurting feelings - some actions are purely deliberate and it's like letting maniac killer loose and calmly eating one's dinner, knowing this fact all the time. No, just no.
I'd dare to say the same is true for up- and downvoting. Its quite (and i mean QUITE) obvious in a lot of mediocre so-so entries, which get 10s and 9s from the crowd. At the end, the so called up- and downvotes cancel out each other.
Saul got a very good 8.9 score. If ppl didnt know the vote stats, there'd be zero reason to complain. Remove this bullshit feature, problem solved.
They won't cancel each out if there is not much vote(r)s. Seen it a lot, a release doesn't reach the required minimum voters to show average. Still, if you check the rating page, there's quite some low votes usually.
And these votes were cast on decent or better than decent entries. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11164 |
Quote:They won't cancel each out if there is not much vote(r)s.
Perhaps. But the reason for that is that you generally cant calculate a meaningful score from just a handful votes. Expecting the score to show anything useful from votes you can count on one hand is just a flawed concept. It will never work.
That said, what also needs to be removed is the ability to see the result of the voting before you even voted. Not only this skewes the results - not seeing the result might even motivate some more people to vote at all.
And while at it, also remove the ability to change your vote. Or at least make it so you can only change it after a week, or a month. Because you know whats quite effective (and not seldomly seen)? Vote 1 yourself on your own entry. "corrective" votes fly in quickly. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1294 |
Quoting Groepaz
Quote:That said, what also needs to be removed is the ability to see the result of the voting before you even voted. Not only this skewes the results - not seeing the result might even motivate some more people to vote at all.
That I second wholeheartedly - very practical because of all reasons <3 |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 113 |
Quote:when you go public, you have to deal with your scene friends feeling hurt and maybe even messages received from the people you supposedly downvoted.
If a friend cannot accept a supposedly unfavorable opinion on his/her work, it's his/her turn for personal improvement, and not for the rest of the world to cater to it. Nothing prevents anyone from expressing said opinion in a civil/polite manner, so the author doesn't feel hurt. Upvoting someone because he/she is a friend is also a prime example of nepotism, and quite shallow motivation to begin with - equally as much as downvoting because of hatred.
Quote:what also needs to be removed is the ability to see the result of the voting before you even voted. Not only this skewes the results - not seeing the result might even motivate some more people to vote at all.
This paired together with perma-votes/cooldowns (30+ days) actually make some sense, although it falsely assumes that the vote was being cast honestly - which is never the case with anonymous hatevoters. |
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Flotsam
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 82 |
Personally I wouldn't cry much if the option to vote was removed completely. Votes are just a numeric generalization of people's general feelings (quite possibly leading to generic productions in hopes of high votes) while comments can hold a lot more weight and information. Yay for comments, nay for votes (at least in their current form combined with low vote counts). |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11164 |
Quote:although it falsely assumes that the vote was being cast honestly - which is never the case with anonymous hatevoters
All of my downvotes are honest. I mean it. They suck.
Regarding "honest" votes - if we really want this, we'll have to remove all and every source that introduces some bias prior to voting. ie not show who made something, nor how it is called. good luck :) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1294 |
I just want to clarify on my part that I don't want to pinpoint all downvoting possible. It happens - sure, people have reasons - sure.
It's just this particular case - literally EVERY recent tune (and maybe older ones too, I haven't checked) by Saul Cross gets 2 by default, regardless of actual release value. For me that's already stalking. |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 113 |
Quote: Personally I wouldn't cry much if the option to vote was removed completely. Votes are just a numeric generalization of people's general feelings (quite possibly leading to generic productions in hopes of high votes) while comments can hold a lot more weight and information. Yay for comments, nay for votes (at least in their current form combined with low vote counts).
This is also true, and feels like a good idea. Especially with how the calculations work. I do understand that there's some sort of anti-hate mechanism involved in the formula, but the outcome is completely unreliable, weird and doesn't feel to represent "anything".
(A quick example: there was this avg=8,8 work that I voted 9 yesterday, and as a result it dropped down to avg=8.6. I then changed it to 8, and it went up to avg=8,9. I'd prefer to keep it 9, but I didn't like it made the avg lower. It just begs for trial-and-error tampering.) |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 113 |
Quote: I just want to clarify on my part that I don't want to pinpoint all downvoting possible. It happens - sure, people have reasons - sure.
It's just this particular case - literally EVERY recent tune (and maybe older ones too, I haven't checked) by Saul Cross gets 2 by default, regardless of actual release value. For me that's already stalking.
Well, there are many other "particular cases", as the same thing happened to all my releases from Dex-D and "coincidentally" that other account which is claimed to be his "GF" Peeshaya (the lvllvl.com PETSCII artist), and I couldn't care less. I mean, we either deal with the badly constructed voting system completely or else there will be tons of people bringing similar cases to public judgment/pillory. And that will become a mess. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11164 |
Quote:literally EVERY recent tune (and maybe older ones too, I haven't checked) by Saul Cross gets 2 by default, regardless of actual release value. For me that's already stalking.
So what, all releases get one 2 from someone? Would you even know this when the voting stats wouldnt be public? Does it matter at all when ~10 ppl voted significantly higher?
The problem here is that the single guy who votes 2 gets the attention, leans back, enjoys popcorn. Hide the stats and the problem goes away.
PS: there is no need for trial and error tempering: CSDb Voter Pro 1.0 |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1060 |
There are several options like making all voting public, removing the vote statistics page, or removing voting altogether. But do something and stop defending the status quo, since the current system is nothing but a source of abuse, drama, and trolling. If you want people to release more and vote less, don't keep a system that drives away creative people while providing a perfect playground for assholes. |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 113 |
Quote:Hide the stats and the problem goes away.
No, it doesn't. It's just you pretending it doesn't exist. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11164 |
I am willing to bet that nothing will be changed unless Perff hands over maintainership to someone who actually gives a damn.
Of course just not taking this voting kindergarten serious isnt an option, i understand that.
Quote:No, it doesn't. It's just you pretending it doesn't exist.
So you'd whine as well when you see someones entry with a calculated result of 8.9? |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1832 |
Sigh.
Anyone who wants to get downvoted, msg me.
Anyone who upvotes others - how dare you! Be fair! Your group mates are equally shitty compared to the rest of this bunch.
Anyone who cares - keep posting. I feel there is a real text flood being held back by you people in lack of other topics.
Anyone who already downvotes - go ahead! We love the drama you create!
*looks at the fire with a glance in the eyes* |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1294 |
I upvote everyone equally, unless sth sucks cock ;) |
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ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1390 |
There are waaaay too many nine and ten votes - no space for nuance at all.
Sometimes a low vote just means someone didn't like the production.. and/or spaces out their votes so they can vote godlike > astounding > amazing > excellent > very good > good, oh look we're down to voting 5 for something that's still decent and 4 for something that's just not your cup of tea despite being technically ok...
FWIW, I've not voted on Follin Around yet :P |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11164 |
BTW, "we" have one anti-fan as well who frequently votes low scores for our stuff. I find it quite funny. Apperently there are still people around who think this means anything to me or us. Cute. :) |
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ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1390 |
Quoting GroepazThat said, what also needs to be removed is the ability to see the result of the voting before you even voted. Not only this skewes the results - not seeing the result might even motivate some more people to vote at all.
Ooh, now there's a thought. |
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saulc12
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 19 |
A more sensible voting system would simply be a ballot - i.e. vote if you like the product (all votes carry a value of 1) and don't vote if you don't. The idea of voting a score becomes meaningless the moment somebody makes a deliberate downvote and it really isn't helped by the bizarre algorithm that is used for weighting, which while it is supposed to reduce the effects of downvoting produces some very inconsistent and often bizarre results. Of course you could just remove anonymity from the voting while keeping the scoring system in and that would probably go a long way to dealing with deliberate downvoting as those low votes are invariably anonymous and there are never corresponding comments that would suggest the reason behind the vote (as commenting is not anonymous.
As for upvoting by members of the same group, there is really little (sensible) that can be done about that, except to hope that people would vote honestly. But it is a valid point that this does exist and also, effectively makes voting, especially in competitions, somewhat meaningless. For example, as the group I am tied to is RGCD and others tied to RGCD are not regularly voting on here, I am not going to get a string of additional votes, while some groups have regular voters who will quite often vote 10 by default on any production that comes from the group (self voting would also come under this - I no longer vote on my own productions).
In all honesty, I have not intended to create a shit storm over any of this, but for my own part, as I have said, I don't lie spite or cowardice and I guess that I would hope for fairness. Ultimately for example I don't really expect to win in any competition or expect high scores, but I would like to think that the score and placements I got were fair and honest, and would hope the same would be true for anybody else who uploaded here. I don't think I am alone in this. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11164 |
a system that only counts "like" and not "don't like" is really super meaningless. this isnt fecesbook here. |
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Trash
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
Solution: Let only the people on the production see anonymous votes, all other only get to see the public votes.
Pros: Up / down voting isn't so easy anymore, votes in bad faith will only be exposed to the creators of a product, more honest votes?
Cons: Fewer votes (but who cares?), you still have to see downvotes as the creator (but who cares?) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11164 |
How does this solve anything and not just create an even bigger mess? lol! |
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saulc12
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 19 |
So Groepaz, when you have an election, do you think it would make more sense to give each candidate a score?
A vote is a ballot by rights. I can agree that it may not make so much sense in a competition, but in that case if you are going to run a competition, have a judging panel.
AS for the comment about splitting who can see public and anonymous votes, I really don't see how that would help as it still allows some jerk to be a jerk. |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 427 |
Describing music with just a number is not telling much about what one thought was good about it and what was bad about it. It is pointless.(pardon the pun) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11164 |
Quote:when you have an election, do you think it would make more sense to give each candidate a score?
this is not an election, this is about charts and rankings. look at any sports league. |
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saulc12
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 19 |
Actually, if it is about charts, they are based entirely on units sold or downloaded or whatever else, not on any scoring system and this is not football or any other kind of sport.
If you want to judge and apply scores then use a judging panel.
Quantifying how much something is liked or not will always be contentious anyway.
On thing I don't get is why anybody on here would defend trolling and shit-posting - after all, how does that ever encourage creativity.
I think with that I shall do what I said I would do earlier and stop posting. Just as I did last year, I will stay away from CSDB, because to be honest it doesn't make me want to share anything. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2870 |
Hmm... before you deleted your entry, i saw one very low vote at 2, the others were all 7+, iirc. Did that one downvote upset you that much? |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1294 |
@saulc12: you realize mods are going to restore your all entries anyway? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11164 |
Quote:this is not football or any other kind of sport.
But that is exactly what Demoscene is about. |
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ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1390 |
Eh, csdb scores were never going to be a good fit for a voting system. I only used them myself for past compos because I've been too lazy to create or use an alternative.
Anyone is free to ignore anonymous votes if they so choose - the "csdb mean" of public votes has been available for aeons.
Also, as iAN said, "don't let a SINGLE low voter ruin your day" :) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1294 |
My vote count deals with 'lone sheriffs' quite nicely ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11164 |
Please keep your "lone sheriff" out of here! |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1054 |
Nothing to See Here |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1294 |
Quoting GroepazPlease keep your "lone sheriff" out of here!
:* |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2107 |
Quote: @saulc12: you realize mods are going to restore your all entries anyway?
Exactly. Deleting releases is regarded as database vandalism, so please, cool down and stop it. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11164 |
I suggest adding a "Moderator" function for sceners so i can downvote der Ryker! |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3036 |
Well, I'll be transparent here. I voted BAN for that specific user some time ago. One other mod voted ban too. That makes two votes total.
If one more mod will vote ban, the user will be banned. So either he will stop targeting people he hates/despises (which is probably too late), or he has big chance that he will eventually get banned.
Excerpt from rules:
"CSDb is a place for facts and factual discussions of scene related issues. It is therefore not permissible to use CSDb as a medium for any kind of personal attacks/discriminating or foul language (using the forum, oneliners, comments on CSDb entries, PM's, deliberate downvoting or anything similar), and any such will be punished with temporarily or permanent exclusion from the site."
Update: it's done. |
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wil
Registered: Jan 2019
Posts: 46 |
Quote: Quote:It's quite easy to distinguish honest score from being arse with self-esteem complexes - especially when you see how votes are generally distributed
Thats what you think. But its still all about taste. And its totally fine to dislike something that everyone else loves. And to vote the single 1 where everyone else voted 10s and 9s. And again, if the stats were not visible, the problem would not exist. at all.
That's true. Give csdb's odd "averaging" algorithm, everybody would have a hard time estimating what was voted. Even if a scener would tell you they just voted for your release, comparing the before and after value would tell you much. Therefore the odd algorithm would make sense at once. I'm more a transparency fan though. |
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saulc12
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 19 |
I wasn't aware that deleting entries was regarded as database vandalism, so my apologies - I just decided to quietly withdraw is all.
And please Groepaz, don't say that the scene is like football, I can't stand football, so that just makes it all so much worse lol. |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 113 |
Quoting CreaMDCSDb is a place for facts and factual discussions of scene related issues. It is therefore not permissible to use CSDb as a medium for any kind of personal attacks/discriminating or foul language (using the forum, oneliners, comments on CSDb entries, PM's, deliberate downvoting or anything similar), and any such will be punished with temporarily or permanent exclusion from the site.
If there are no actions taken regarding the deliberate downvoting part then it is pointless for that (or any other) rule to even be written down. Especially when it's followed by some moderators' rug-sweeping reactions: lol, another text flooding, grabbing popcorn etc. On the other hand, it's funny that a screenshot with 1 pixel missing gets replaced/deleted in a few minutes with police-like efficiency.
Quoting GroepazOf course just not taking this voting kindergarten serious isnt an option, i understand that.
It's nice that there is some acknowledgement, and I guess there was an attempt made by increasing the voters required to calculate the "weighted average" from 5 to 8, but it seems that it still requires an overhaul.
+1 on transparent votes. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 458 |
+1 on completely anonymous votes.
the scene is full of sensitive people - including myself - and therefore not ready for vote transparency. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1294 |
Quoting chuinhothe scene is full of sensitive people - including myself - and therefore not ready for vote transparency.
Doesn't sensitivity include both givers and receivers? ;) |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4627 |
Quote: I wasn't aware that deleting entries was regarded as database vandalism, so my apologies - I just decided to quietly withdraw is all.
And please Groepaz, don't say that the scene is like football, I can't stand football, so that just makes it all so much worse lol.
<Post edited by hedning on 21/5-2021 19:05>
Football/Soccer or "chase a ball with your feet" is retarded, indeed. Now: fight! :D *grabbing popcorns* |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1294 |
Quoting hedningFootball/Soccer or "chase a ball with your feet" is retarded, indeed. Now: fight! :D
<3 <3 <3 |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11164 |
Quote:If there are no actions taken regarding the deliberate downvoting
Please define *exactly* what constitutes *deliberate* downvoting and how we are going to detect it. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2107 |
Many views and suggestions, some innovative, some known from the other 100 downvote threads.
Anyway, Mods and especially Perff will read and debate the issue.
1 user banned, 1 user close to rage quit, should be enough drama for one day
*closed* |
