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Forums > CSDb Discussions > making an image of an original
2019-05-07 01:32
maestro

Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 681
making an image of an original

ok I found an original in a stash of disks I had in the attic.

game is bubble bobble.

maybe im wrong and it's something to do with vice im not sure.

ive made a d.64 from the original and when I try to load it in vice it gets stuck at the same point everytime.

ive loaded the disk on my c64 and it works fine.

so does this game have a copy protection that I cant copy? or is it something in vice that;s not quite working correctly (something I am not sure about in vice that I wonder if it's not working as it loads extremely quickly in vice but on the c64 it loads slowly) could it be something to do with the speed it tries to load in vice?

any help or advice on this would be greatly appreciated
2019-05-07 08:09
bugjam

Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 1761
Just a wild guess: try to nibble the disk, and make a .g64 instead of a .d64 out of it, which is faithful to the original.
2019-05-07 08:53
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 4432
if it has one of those physical protection (half track, misaligned sectors) then I doubt nibbling or g64 will help.
2019-05-07 12:10
LHS

Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 66
I made a copy of original Printfox using this procedure:

- Insert 1541U into C64, with 1541 emulation and number 8.
- Connect real 1541 with number 9 to serial port.
- Create a blank G64 image in 1541U menu and mount.
- Run a nibbler, e.g. Maverick.

Printfox was copied to the G64 and still works.
2019-05-07 12:33
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 1241
A quick check of https://c64preservation.com says:
Bubble Bobble (PAL)	Firebird	1987	Verified sets:1
Archived: 2005-10-26 21:34:06
Protection: GMA87 - signature on track 37
This "GMA87 signature" seems to work with g64, but not d64: http://www.tim-schuermann.de/c64/all/mnibcompat.html - apparently nibbling works.
2019-05-07 14:41
Mr. SID

Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 364
Maybe check if true drive emulation is turned on?
2019-05-09 07:34
maestro

Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 681
if I turn true drive emulation off vice does not load anything at all.

thanks for the comments telling me it is protected. so ill need to try and nibble it
2019-05-09 09:14
tlr

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1229
It’s a pretty safe bet that any original game disk you encounter is going to be protected. Most, if not all, were. Some of the early ones used simple errored sector schemes that could be represented in a .d64 with added error info.
2019-05-10 12:36
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 1241
Quoting tlr
Most, if not all, were [protected].
Quite a few originals did not have a physical protection, in fact. But among the hardest to copy were high-density fast/IRQ-loading schemes with custom formats, which had the copy protection rather as a welcome side-effect than the primary goal.

The syncless variants of Vorpal (and "V-MAX!"?) are hard to image even today, as you need to know the soft boundaries of the tracks so they're not written starting/ending right in the middle of a data block, thus corrupting it.
2019-05-10 14:19
tlr

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1229
Quoting Krill
Quite a few originals did not have a physical protection, in fact. But among the hardest to copy were high-density fast/IRQ-loading schemes with custom formats, which had the copy protection rather as a welcome side-effect than the primary goal.

Whether the copy prevention was part of the primary goals or not can be argued. The point I was trying to make is that a .d64 usually isn't enough to represent an image of an original disk in a way that can be loaded in an emulator. A .g64 usually is (but not always).
2019-05-10 16:39
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 1241
Quoting tlr
Whether the copy prevention was part of the primary goals or not can be argued.
Indeed. From https://c64preservation.com/dp.php?pg=piratebusters
Harald Seeley (guy who did V-MAX copy protection) mentioned once that software
companies used to view V-MAX cracked copies as a preview copies, as the 1541
drive was so slow and V-MAX had a fastloader (the cracked copies would load at
slow 1541 speeds). Was this the view of other companies as well?

BRIAN:
No idea - but as part of PirateBusters, we included a high-speed loader.

KRIS:
Not that I know of.

KEVIN P:
I don't know about that.
Quoting tlr
The point I was trying to make is that a .d64 usually isn't enough to represent an image of an original disk in a way that can be loaded in an emulator. A .g64 usually is (but not always).
True. I did not argue against that. :)
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