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Forums > CSDb Discussions > Ultimate II+ .crt+reu
2020-11-17 14:37

Registered: Jun 2012
Posts: 9
Ultimate II+ .crt+reu

i have tested a demo made to work in .crt + reu. It works in vice but with 1541 ultimate II+ to work i have to start demo,crt than disable reu from menu. Return to demo, enable the reu and reset the system without reload the demo.crt.
I have made the same with RR.crt and Reu doesn’t work until i don’t disable and enable the Reu.
There is a settings to start .crt and use Reu without this method?
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2020-11-18 09:00

Registered: May 2004
Posts: 23
I agree, of course, that real hardware is the correct way. And as others have said, finding a real REU is hard.

1541 Ultimate is a great product and as I wrote, I have contacted Gideon but he has not (AFAIK) fixed the issue.

Me being oldschool means that I still use old VICE versions, especially as I'm not very fond of GTK on Windows ;)

If I had released Expand with no checks and no delay for fixing the loader issue on 1541 Ultimate I'm 100% certain that I would be getting the blame :

"He can't even time a magic byte raster effect, what a lamer!!!11"

"The demo crashes at random, when will he learn to code???"

The above was also the reason for releasing REU Tools, not so much in regard to VICE as the newer versions (and dropping x64 in favor of x64sc) means that only the older versions have problems, but then the hardware implementors have something to test their products...
2020-11-18 09:30

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 785
Walt: I used to think this way, too (if coder can't work around new fancy hardware spoofs, coder is the one to blame). But the firmware developers of both 1541-U-II+ and TC64 assured me, it's the other way round. If sth works on real (ancient) hardware but not on "unreal" but nice-to-have new stuff, it's up to the firmare developers to make their hardware behave as accurately as possible compared to original hardware.
2020-11-18 09:51

Registered: Oct 2014
Posts: 410
lets do our best to avoid the ZSNES problem ;)
2020-11-18 12:28

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 1638
Quoting oziphantom
lets do our best to avoid the ZSNES problem ;)
I believe the C-64 equivalent is the "Amber Cow effect" =) https://csdb.dk/release/?id=4820&show=goof
2020-11-18 13:57

Registered: May 2004
Posts: 23
@TheRyk: You are right, but the problem is that if it is just us thinking like that, there is still the risk of blame from those who do not think like us (or do not understand the problem) :(

As I see it, I have found a problem, worked around it and documented it and made test software for those that need to fix it... I hope that this way everybody wins ;)

@Krill: Amber Cow looks like they were able to use graphics under $9xxx in earlier VICE versions?
2020-11-18 14:06

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 1638
Quoting Walt
@Krill: Amber Cow looks like they were able to use graphics under $9xxx in earlier VICE versions?
Indeed! Although that's possible using an actual real Action Replay (e.g.), too. =)
2020-11-18 16:37

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 9647
That makes it sound like the emu devs don’t care about purity

There are countless examples for this, regarding VICE, regarding 1541U, regarding TC64, and pretty much every other emulator in existance. When things work, there is no reason to fix anything. The only reason for most authors to fix something is when a real program (not some testprogram) breaks. Testprograms are only useful (and needed) for debugging something, incase some real program failed. Infact, not seldomly when i contact other emulator authors about certain failing tests, the first question is "but what does it break?" - and when i cant name some real program they will likely not spend a lot of effort into fixing anything.

As a VICE and TC64 developer, i ask you to break the emulation, don't work around it. You are not doing anyone a favour.


"He can't even time a magic byte raster effect, what a lamer!!!11"
"The demo crashes at random, when will he learn to code???"

and the only proper reaction to this is "screw you, it works on real hardware."

PS: for TC64 we actually spent quite a bit of effort into fixing a bunch of recently released REU demos. apparently that they work now doesnt actually mean we fixed it. good work :(
2020-11-18 18:10

Registered: May 2004
Posts: 23
@Groepaz: With your test-suite readily available, shouldn't there be competition between emulator developers (both software and hardware kinds) for the 'most accurate' bragging rights, similar to who gets first release on a crack? Or am I missing something???
2020-11-18 18:30

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 9647
What should be and what is are two different things. And its always a lot more interesting to add new features to your emulator than fixing some obscure theoretical problem that only exists in some test program.
2020-11-24 20:46

Registered: Jun 2012
Posts: 9
I posted in github this 1541 uII+ bug, hoping Gideon can resolve it in the next public firmware .
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