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Merman
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 140 |
Transparent votes?
There's been a lot of "discussion" in the one-liner box about whether voting should be transparent, i.e. you can see who voted (and their vote's value).
I feel that things should stay as they are, just the number of votes and "weighted" vote shown for each entry. That would save all the arguments "why did you vote low for me?" or "he/she is a lamer, they voted low for me/my release"
What do others think? |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Okay, let me state it once more, because appearantly it's still not clear: I don't care about being in the charts. I even don't care for my group or its releases being in the charts. All I say is that if you decide to have charts, at least make sure they're as accurate as possible, and transparancy will help doing that.
Also, I view the charts in a way different light than those of 15 years ago. Let's say you're an ex-scener, stumbling upon this wonderful site, and you'd like to know what demos that were released after you left really rock. Wouldn't it be nice if you could depend on the charts here? Ofcourse I know: not everybody has the same taste, but the more people place honest votes (and once again: transparancy will improve those chances, improve I say, not guarantee, dammit!) the better the chance that it will serve that function.
As for my final point, please please please read this through before you go shouting "tdj doesn't like anybody disagreeing with him":
1. if people are for transparancy, cool
2. if people are against transparancy, cool
3. if people don't give a fuck, cool
But I do not like people from group (3) telling me I should stop caring and spend my time otherwise. What have I done for you lately Fade? Nothing, but then again: I don't owe you, or anybody else in this scene, anything. I do not thrive on the stuff I did in the past, I do not want your respect, I simply want to have a discussion here. If people don't like that discussion they should fuck off. It's that simple. |
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
>I don't care about being in the charts. I even don't care for my group or its releases being in the charts. All I say is that if you decide to have charts, at least make sure they're as accurate as possible, and transparancy will help doing that.
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I agree with that but there are always going to be people causing grief to any votesystem, you only need to look at rock n role's wares release system to feel an overwhelming bias towards quality. If the noname guys were to establish a bunch of guys to tally and review releases it would be far healthier then the masses doing so, maybe having a secondary scener votesystem for everyone else to crap on would be better.
Just remember you can't have a discussion without other opinions and i just feel this is going to ramble on until the scene is told how the voting is going to work. |
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Cmr
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2003
Posts: 23 |
What's wrong with Slator's idea? It satisfies both parties : the pro-transparent people and the anti-transparant people. Or is it really the meaning to make the votesystem only for one sort of people (if I see some critics here, it looks like that some guys prefer this)?
Slator's idea : the choice of looking at the transparent charts only or at the full charts (including the anonym votes). I think this is a neutral choice for everybody and easy to do by Perff (I think). |
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Cmr
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2003
Posts: 23 |
These are Merman's words :
I feel that things should stay as they are, just the number of votes and "weighted" vote shown for each entry. That would save all the arguments "why did you vote low for me?" or "he/she is a lamer, they voted low for me/my release"
In some way he is right. But TDJ's facts are in some way also right.
In Slator's idea you have the secure feeling for people like Merman (for those who like to display the charts counted on all votes) and the open feeling for people like TDJ (for those who like to display the charts counted on the transparent votes only).
If you make the whole vote-system transparent, the anonym voters will stay away (otherwise they had already made their vote transparent now) and you still have the now-transparent votes as only chart. Slator gives a chance for both. If somebody only wants the transparent votes in the vote-system, then he discriminates people who like another vote-system. So why not taking both, it is possible!
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Perff
Administrator
Posts: 1679 |
I have been following this thread and the survey, and it seems to me that the best solution will be something like this:
In CSDb we calculate two ratings. One based only on the votes given by users who have their votes public, and one based on all votes (like now).
Any user can then chose on the userpage which of these ratings they want displayed when THEY browse the site.
The default will be the rating based on all votes.
This will result in some coding for my part, so it will not be implementet in one day. (Besides I'm rather busy in these days..)
Any comments/objections? |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: I have been following this thread and the survey, and it seems to me that the best solution will be something like this:
In CSDb we calculate two ratings. One based only on the votes given by users who have their votes public, and one based on all votes (like now).
Any user can then chose on the userpage which of these ratings they want displayed when THEY browse the site.
The default will be the rating based on all votes.
This will result in some coding for my part, so it will not be implementet in one day. (Besides I'm rather busy in these days..)
Any comments/objections?
I honestly don't think it's bad but it's not good either. It's a bit 'bleegh' if you know what I mean. Taking the easy way out, but that's cool .. Now you have 2 different kinds of charts that don't mean shit instead of just 1, right? :)
And I still want an option to make my products non-votable. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Just a few comments:
1. Please publish results of the votes.
2. Please make non-anynymity default. In my opinion it will show respect to people who aren't afraid to show their opinion publicly.
3. Please, try to estimate how many people who voted actually are sceners and how many of the votes are from accounts which by your estimate could be fake.
4. How many people who voted at least 20-30 votes are from such accounts?
5. In private.
thanx in advance,
roman |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
I liked the idea of shoing all votes or open votes. Maybe also an option to just show the anonymous votes too?
TDJ:What do you mean? I see it as an opportunity for people to use votes they are more comfortable with. Some people don't trust anonymous votes so with this option they can have them disregarded.
I don't know what is to be gained from excluding entries from votes. Simply don't look at the votes or when looking at the chart, move all productions under it up 1. Do you want to remove the chance for people to grade it compared to others? You may not want it compared to others or whatever reason. Other people may think it's worth grading. That's their opinion.
This database is more than some votes. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: I liked the idea of shoing all votes or open votes. Maybe also an option to just show the anonymous votes too?
TDJ:What do you mean? I see it as an opportunity for people to use votes they are more comfortable with. Some people don't trust anonymous votes so with this option they can have them disregarded.
I don't know what is to be gained from excluding entries from votes. Simply don't look at the votes or when looking at the chart, move all productions under it up 1. Do you want to remove the chance for people to grade it compared to others? You may not want it compared to others or whatever reason. Other people may think it's worth grading. That's their opinion.
This database is more than some votes.
It's very simple: if I can't trust the votes for my productions to be based on that production itself, and not on something else, I'd rather have no votes at all. It should be as honest as possible.
And yes, this database is more than votes, I never said it wasn't, but I think that if you give people the chance to place anonymous votes you should also give people the chance to make their productions non-votable. Or do you think that people creating stuff have less rights than people judging it? Even if the people judging it don't even have the guts to do it out in the open? |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
That doesn't make much logical sense. You have never said to someone what you thought of a release before without making it more public? It's not much dffierent to diskmag charts. Most people don't know who voted for what. Typically only the reply spread line does (return path to editor). Why don't you run a crusade to have all diskmag charts transparent?
It's the internet so don't be so interested in opinions. IT seems a little childish to be so interested in who is voting for what otherwise don't let my stuff be rated. Maybe you can more indepth detail about what is so bad that you don't want your stuff to be rated? |
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