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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
Votes
Why do some of you hide your votes? HMM? this makes no sense. And stop downvoting people just because you do not like them.
This database is supposed to be accurate, not a place for you to continue with your stupid grudges and scene wars.
a note to perff: since Secret Man, WDR etc have been deleted from this, I think you should also remove all their votes.
and get rid of this hidden voting, if people cannot publicy stand by their vote choices, then they shouldn't be voting at all.
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Quoting groepazgreat ideas here, make votes public AND make an additional comment mandatory! that will surely increase the amounts of votes!
the results would not change at all (because well, they won't). no way it will only lead to more crap and more flames, nononono thats not possibly an option because not only everyone can stand for his votes - also everyone can deal with someone voting differently than he expected!
Well, if you cant stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen.
I don't understand why everyone is acting as if the votes being public would bring the world as we know it to an end.
Just because I like you personally that doesn't mean I have to vote 10 for all your stuff.
Its not about generating as much vote's as possible, it should rather be about generating 'valuable' votes.
Otherwise, why don't we just let it stay anonymous and have Perf write a script that randomly casts alternating votes from 1-10 on all the entries. That's about as useful as how it is now.
PS: Yes, Trailmix being above Deus Ex is irritating. But thats a totally other problem.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
Quote:
Well, if you cant stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen.
I don't understand why everyone is acting as if the votes being public would bring the world as we know it to an end.
and i seriously don't get why anyone would seriously think that it would change anything (in the sense of "better" results that is). as others already said, votes in diskmags never were public. still everyone agrees that those charts were "better". you should be asking "why is that?"
Quote:
Just because I like you personally that doesn't mean I have to vote 10 for all your stuff.
i agree - yet not everyone is mature enough to act like that, and that is exactly the problem. public votes *might* add some "transparency" or "credibility" (i disagree on both however) - but at the same time they *will* also be a source of outrage and immature actions among those who "can't stand the heat". and hu- even those who "can stand the heat" will find themselves in flamewars because they just can't keep quiet. i promise :=)
hell, i remember when i voted a 1 for MacGyver ... and was spammed with PMs asking WTF i was thinking. LOL. _I_ can stand this for all i care (and i have no problem telling someone to kiss my ass goodbye either) - but surely not everyone is like this, some would be annoyed of such actions enough to leave alltogether (as it happened with many people in the past) and imho thats a bigger loss than not knowing the source of a handful anonymous votes.
Quote:
Its not about generating as much vote's as possible, it should rather be about generating 'valuable' votes.
lol. what you want is a jury of experts then, not a poll among all users. the latter needs as much of equally valueable votes as possible to be statistically relevant in any way. if you only want "valueable" votes then you can remove public voting alltogether, because its the wrong tool for the job.
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3052 |
Quote:as others already said, votes in diskmags never were public. still everyone agrees that those charts were "better". you should be asking "why is that?"
Because they were hand counted. They were checked for correctness (completeness? whateveR) and the fraud was almost impossible. Can you imagine sending 50 votesheets pretending that they are coming from different persons. Would you pay for such postage? Would you be so naive to believe that such attempt would stay unnoticed, or even unannounced? Votes stayed anonymous, yes, but the person who counted them knew the sources and could spot any anomaly quite easily.
Exactly how SidCompo voting works. There is occasional attempt for manipulation (but not that excessive as in first 2 years).
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3052 |
Quote:hell, i remember when i voted a 1 for MacGyver ... and was spammed with PMs asking WTF i was thinking. LOL.
Yes it's kinda hard to have trusted account and see how some people downvote you. Especially when those people smile at you and shake your hands at parties where you meet them. Or when they downvote you to get higher than you in the charts. Or when you are downvoted by the members of the same group (who you actually also happen to know personally). I learned to ignore that because although it's sort of "privilege" to know, it's also a curse. All you can do about it in most of the cases is to ignore it. It's especially funny to meet someone who downvoted you every year and *know*, while he doesn't know that you *know*. Unfortunatelly that's only funny thing about it, because if you told them, they would start to act like slippery eels.. yew.. well. Fork'em'all..
I think Mac earned some of the negative points after the controversy with PTV stuff. I must admit that some of the points are justified because what he has done he probably didn't consult with Perff. Still, if that happened to me and if I was sure that I'm doing the right thing, be sure I wouldn't ignore the vibe or leave the battleground so easily ;-). After all there are rules about behaviour here and believe it or not it's quite easy to recognise retaliatory vote from fair 1. That reminds me of Yoko's 1 on all my scene jobs plus some releases (including demo coded by TDJ which featured my music). That happened before his first ban. Now when I told him to behave (when he suggested suicide to Richard) he gave me 1 as musician after some heated debate. Expert opinion, indeed. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
Quote:
Because they were hand counted. They were checked for correctness (completeness? whateveR) and the fraud was almost impossible. Can you imagine sending 50 votesheets pretending that they are coming from different persons. Would you pay for such postage? Would you be so naive to believe that such attempt would stay unnoticed, or even unannounced? Votes stayed anonymous, yes, but the person who counted them knew the sources and could spot any anomaly quite easily.
i have to repeat myself again: public votes will not solve this, what you really want is linking every user account to a scener entry.
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After all there are rules about behaviour here and believe it or not it's quite easy to recognise retaliatory vote from fair 1.
i voted a 1 as "public relation manager" after all the craptalk happened. imho that was very justified =)
however that was just an example of how "public" (in this case, visible to admins) votes only cause more unwanted behaviour. if there is already one nutcase out of 10 (or so so) admins, then i don't want to know how many fruitcakes come out of 3000+ users :=)
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3052 |
Linking user accout to scener entry - I like this idea very much, but Perff would complaint that some users aren't real sceners and that if he disallowed them o vote there would be less votes. I also think that there is possibility for attempts for "takeovers" of abbandoned handles from people wanting to manipulate votes from multiple fake accounts.
Quote:i voted a 1 as "public relation manager" after all the craptalk happened. imho that was very justified =)
That's why I don't complaint. Although I'm sure there are sceners who know Mac as someone who gave them motivation or enough "bugging" to bring their stuff out etc. I'm sure Mac thought he is doing good "public realitons". Well, it's a bit sensitive topic actually. Mac is still doing c64.sk news and stuff and he is doing it good. I would say.. if you do something, it's possible that you will also do some mistakes. That's quite natural. Yet, it's important to be able to bear the responsibility when you did them.
Quote:however that was just an example of how "public" (in this case, visible to admins) votes only cause more unwanted behaviour. if there is already one nutcase out of 10 (or so so) admins, then i don't want to know how many fruitcakes come out of 3000+ users :=)
Yep. I understand your motivation behind arguments defending anonymous votes.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
Quote:
Linking user accout to scener entry - I like this idea very much, but Perff would complaint that some users aren't real sceners and that if he disallowed them o vote there would be less votes. I also think that there is possibility for attempts for "takeovers" of abbandoned handles from people wanting to manipulate votes from multiple fake accounts.
a) if this is a scene database, then it should be no problem linking every user with a scener profile. people that have no background in the scene and who dont want to be part of it can go to pouet or something
b) there are always reasons for abuse, obviously. however its surely easier to identify someone who wrongly associates himself with a certain profile than someone who just creates an account not associated with anything at all.
imho the accounts not linked to any scener profiles are much more of a problem than a couple of anonymous votes.
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3052 |
Quote: Quote:
Linking user accout to scener entry - I like this idea very much, but Perff would complaint that some users aren't real sceners and that if he disallowed them o vote there would be less votes. I also think that there is possibility for attempts for "takeovers" of abbandoned handles from people wanting to manipulate votes from multiple fake accounts.
a) if this is a scene database, then it should be no problem linking every user with a scener profile. people that have no background in the scene and who dont want to be part of it can go to pouet or something
b) there are always reasons for abuse, obviously. however its surely easier to identify someone who wrongly associates himself with a certain profile than someone who just creates an account not associated with anything at all.
imho the accounts not linked to any scener profiles are much more of a problem than a couple of anonymous votes.
Yes I agree with Linking user accout to scener entry it's a good idea. (Repetitio est mater studiorum) |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
Then why not simply make it a POINTS system like old times.
1=1
2=2
10=10
etc
this is better than stupid percentages which are only for money!
u add all the points and divide by number of votes, to obtain a proper percentage, the math is FLAWED.
HELLO :D
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
that actually makes sense, and at the same time doesnt :) if a lot of people vote "1" for a certain entry it could climb higher in the charts than another entry which gets only "10" votes, just 10 times less. it *would* resemble the good old mag charts though :) |
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