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2003-05-26 20:11

drake
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207

scene activity

more and more i get the feeling that the my world (the scene) has become smaller and smaller. after a chat with the overkiller it was clear to me that the dutch scene isn't alive anymore and the italian scene either.

but what about the polish scene, the slovak scene and the german scene? how did the c64 survive through all the modern thinkings and technology?

sure as hell i bet the german scene survived because the pc-sceners adopted the c64 on their parties like mekka+symposium.....

drake

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2003-06-09 21:06

drake
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207

puterman seems to be one of those guys who sees themselves as the ppl who state that a release suxx because they simply don't like it. and then they give criticism and give it ti the scene as a fact or so....

2003-06-10 07:33

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

Quote: puterman seems to be one of those guys who sees themselves as the ppl who state that a release suxx because they simply don't like it. and then they give criticism and give it ti the scene as a fact or so....

Puterman seems to be one of those guys who tells it like it is, with a list of solid reasons. I personally haven't read scene world (because most mags bore my brains out so why bother reading them?) but looking at the list he gave, I'd say that yes, there is plenty of room of improvement. And I guess you yourself could easily check to see if the points on that list are valid or not.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen = if you can't stand critisism, don't release anything. It's that simple.

2003-06-10 12:06

Merman

Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 140

Let's get this straight. I am not LYING about Scene World, or making up excuses.

1) Ripped text - as I posted at pouet.net, Domination's news text was nearly identical to www.c64.sk, with some group status added. But Puterman chose to criticise us. I stand by my comment that a third of the mag was from the Internet - not ripped, but used with permission. Some of our readers do not have net access, so how else are they going to find out what's happening?

2) The charts - yes, there were mistakes. Variat used to edit them, then stepped down. Murdock offered, but Truss took over. There have been some problems, but we will try to iron them out.
Another point - our rules state "Do not vote for yourself, your group or your group's productions" - which means people are free to vote for Scene World. They don't automatically vote it as the best magazine.
Filtering out old sceners/releases - it's up to each mag to decide if they want to do this. At the moment, we don't.

3) Floppy party coverage - the party happened just days before we released the issue, we tried to get a party report in but it was not finished. There were results from the party, and a "preview" text.

4) Loader - now I have the source code from Macbeth, I can work on it. Issue 7 saw some improvements in the code to allow us to use two sides of the disk, the plan for issue 8 is to TRY and add Dream Loader.

As for people "giving up" on sending us messages, that sounds like an excuse you made up to support your views.

Dark Judge, I think it is a little harsh for you to judge us WITHOUT seeing the mag, based on Puterman's list. That's like me reviewing a movie without even watching it, then saying there was a problem with the plot.

The mag HAS improved from issue 1, the mag will continue to improve (there are several ideas waiting to be implemented) and I hope people will be open-minded enough to give it a chance - particularly if you have never read it before.

2003-06-10 12:14

jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578

I wrote this article for the new issue of Attitude much long before the "Scene World" issue came up here, but as ususal, I like to disagree with Hollowman and TDJ just as a little monkey likes playing with his own balls (no Puterman is *not* the only one giving Scene World a massive critcism heheh :), so I have to paste this shit here (after Puter's post it already lost its actuality, eh, don't do that to me any more Puteronimo).
Oh and by the way, it's not SW, but the reactions chapter in Rock & Role that's named "Enemies" tells me more than anything, like how are some people dealing with criticism (I expressed that in the last issue of Attitude but, like moving an ant to the direction of the apple on the ground which is at least 50 feets away, get it huh).

Scene World #7 by People of Liberty

The intro is absolutely great, more or less that's how I imagine an introduction to a magazine: entertaining and fun to watch - not just a scroll and a logo - at least a tiny bit more than that. After pressing space and seeing the credits for the intro on the depacking screen, there we go to the magazine's editorial at once.

Trying to mime a hatred PC operation system on the C64 was never a too succesful idea, especially when one tries to adopt it for a magazine's outfit. A positive side of it is certainly the mouse-support, which suits me well when I read SW under CCS and turn on mouse-emulation. Then again, even Windows has smarter and "easier-to-use" navigation and keyboard-shortcuts, this kind is definitely not the simpliest way to read a magazine and to find what you're looking for (fast & easy usage, that's what I would expect from a scene-mag). I don't get the joystick's control via the keyboard, as if someone doesn't uses a joystick, would prefer a default and easy keyboard-control at least. Consequently, cursor keys would go fine for scrolling the article up and down, rather than controlling the pointer. And same goes for the article-menu. Whilst, positive points to the music-menu which is easy to reach and the option of printing an article (as previously seen and gladly accepted in Vandalism News).
The missing IRQ loader sucks majorly, that's a huge minus (not just) in my eyes, especially that it interrupts the music and the commie goes mute for a while. Makes me wonder, have we all passed to the 21 century or some of the sceners still stucked in the years of Madonna's dispisable virginity and the golden era of Sammy-Fox-strip-poker?
Designwise the magazine doesn't brings out the most from the C64, but it's decent, and since it's based on a GUI of a well-known OS, something like this is expected. Personally, I'd do that interface more elegantly, but IMHO only an HCL-like coder would be able to solve such ideas, so I'll just put here the "I'm satisfied" line and move to judge the articles.

As first, what I don't like. I don't like the articles ripped (or borrowed) from various websites. I don't like the charts (which I anyway loaded just because of this review), where some people and groups listed are not active since ages, nevertheless you can find magazines that don't exist any more. I don't like that there is an "All time composer" category and there's no "all timecoder or graphician", since when are composers superior to others?
The ripped text is obviously for entertaining the so-huge "mail-scene", especially those who live in Central-Afrika or the deserts of Mongolia, and never heard about the internet (which is of course a cheap excuse, as even I, who shake a c64/P1 equipment in the darn poor twilight zones of Serbia with a $100 +/- $50 monthly income, can connect to the internet at least once daily for approax. 15 minutes - that would be about $0.25/day, wooh!).
The charts should be either left out from the magazine or improved heavily - this way, it's useless and, just sucks...
And what I like, are some interesting articles. I really enjoyed Nightlord's essay about "concept and design in demos". "Profiles", as an alternative to interviews, or various party-reports, also gave some minutes of pleasureful reading. But actually, that's most of the exclusive content, other articles were already published somewhere on the net - thus not interesting to me at all.
The english is decent, easy to understand, and what's even more important, the quality of the textual side is constanly improving in this magazine (as an example, they seem to listen critics, and banned non-c64 related articles, which is a move to greet).

2003-06-10 13:20

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

Merman, please read my post carefully: I don't judge SW, I state: "LOOKING AT THE LIST, I'd say there's plenty of room for improvement.". Which was in response to Drake stating that Puterman just gives critisism without any foundation. Which he didn't. Because he gave his list of reasons. Yes?

I honestly don't give a flying fig if people release magazines like SW or Rock 'n Role, just as long as nobody expects me to read them. I don't even consider them part of the 'retard' scene, but I do value them less than other scene productions (or else I would read them), kind of like a 'b-scene'. Nothing wrong with that, after all we can't expect that everybody has the same high level.

And Jailbird, please stop playing with your balls, it's gross.

2003-06-10 13:27

Puterman
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188

The info in Domination might be from c64.sk, but not the actual text. See the different? Obviously not...

According to CSDb, SW7 was released on the 1st of May. Floppy was in February. Of course, 60-70 days is "just days" too...

So, I guess there were no lies or excuses in your last post either? Oh well. From now on (should have done this a long time ago): /ignore Merman

2003-06-10 14:49

Merman

Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 140

/ignores Puterman

Thanks for an honest appraisal Jailbird.

The all-time composer category was a suggestion from Murdock, and we have carried the chart for a couple of issues. This time it will be "all-time graphician".

I won't repeat myself on the subject of chart problems here, just say that I feel the Beergarden is wrong to filter their charts.

Dark Judge, you were saying Scene World could improve based on what Puterman was saying. You were judging us without knowing the truth. And as for this continued "retard/b-scene" argument, I don't give a flying fig about that.

2003-06-11 08:23

Stryyker

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468

Jailbird: for the internet, you only know your situation but other people have their own problems, like living in the middle of nowhere with bad line conditions and other costs. Next you say everyone should have a mobile/cell phone?

Shouldn't the Scene World discussions be somewhere else? Maybe some Rock n Role one should be started since the most recent edition has been released with Scene World best diskmag :)

As for scene activity, all things have their peaks and troughs and interest eventually paters away. People lose interest. We will all hav our own opinions, typically blaming PCs and the internet but many groups/sceners did leave the C64 for the Amiga too...

2003-06-11 11:12

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

I don't think it's strange that SceneWorld is #1 in Rock 'n Role, after all they cater to the same public.

By the way, I checked out R'n'R yesterday and also took a look at the last SW. Defenitely not my taste, both of them.

To be honest, there isn't one single diskmag that I look forward to reading right now. Even VN & Domination bore me, with their big word articles. Sometimes you can be too smart, you know?

I'm still waiting for an online magazine .. when we in Focus were planning to do one (back in '95, were going to call it CyberSh0ck) there were others who had the same idea. 8 years later: still nothing :)

2003-06-11 12:09

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3048

Quote: I don't think it's strange that SceneWorld is #1 in Rock 'n Role, after all they cater to the same public.

By the way, I checked out R'n'R yesterday and also took a look at the last SW. Defenitely not my taste, both of them.

To be honest, there isn't one single diskmag that I look forward to reading right now. Even VN & Domination bore me, with their big word articles. Sometimes you can be too smart, you know?

I'm still waiting for an online magazine .. when we in Focus were planning to do one (back in '95, were going to call it CyberSh0ck) there were others who had the same idea. 8 years later: still nothing :)

Which leads me to the question. How are the judges at Dark Court?