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2004-08-05 07:54

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086

LCP 2004 demos

What do you think ?

I'm sad, as there were no real coder's demos.

Afrika - we 've seen all these effects 10 years before

Triad,Flt - The design / theme of the demos were not good
enough to excuse for no spectacular codings.

Effluvium - the code was not good enough to excuse no gfx/design/whatever.

are there really no coders out there, that can come up with new stuff ?

... 131 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2004-08-09 16:48

RaveGuru

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 43

2004-08-09 16:58

_V_
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124

Well, of course. Theoretically speaking, every production has the elements of graphics (the visual), music (the audial), concept (the underlying idea), code (the implementation) and flow (continuity of execution). But the amount or quantity of each element, each factor can be completely different from one production to another.

The concept of a coder demo usually consists of trying to awe those in the know about the limitations of the platform by creating effects which appear to push the envelope of the platform a little further.

The concept of a 'concept demo' usually consists of trying to transfer human emotions to the viewer, to make her think about certain aspects of life. Or simply to find more abstract ways to express these emotions. You could call it, 'demo poetry' in a sense.

Are these concepts equivalent? Yes, in theory. In practise, 'concept demos' place a strong emphasis on the concept with code working in function of the concept. Coder demos, on the other hand, focus on the technical side of things.

So basically 'coder demos' and 'concept demos' are theoretically equal in concept, but practically opposite in emphasis.

Sat:
Don't you think that the same PC coders who do 64k intros, are also doing smart things for 'real' demos (which have a size limit of app. 10Mb, by the way)? And coding zillions of overlays and new effects is still the coder's turf... it's no coincidence that the most popular groups also have the most talented coders.

I would definitely not catalog PC coders as 'only card tweakers'... that's simply insulting.

Think of demos as 10Mb '64k intros'. And there are still coder demos released on the PC, albeit that they are hard to recognize as such - take a look at Recycled/Byterapers, Live Evil/Mandula and The S/Suspend.

And if you want to hate me some more and lose a few hours over nothing no-good PC demos, then take a look at Heaven Seven/Exceed, A place called Universe (or Beyond)/Conspiracy, H+/Halcyon, Stash (or Jizz)/The Black Lotus, Liquid Wen/Haujobb, Tesla (or Energia, or Wonder)/Sunflower, and Kkowboy/Purple and Blasphemy.

And if you want to find out which drives me at the moment, then download the videos of Silkcut (or Perfect Circle, or Little Nell)/The Black Lotus, Fluffy Digital Snowflakes (or Amsterdam Blessings)/Madwizards and Suspend and Respirator Stories/Ephidrena.

I could go on for a while, but I guess this is enough for public ridicule.

2004-08-09 17:26

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352

oh dear, this is so funny.

the only thing that comes to mind is, that if everyone loves your work, then you must be doing mainstream.

go figure

phun intended. jezuz loves you all

2004-08-09 19:02

Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 942

Quote: oh dear, this is so funny.

the only thing that comes to mind is, that if everyone loves your work, then you must be doing mainstream.

go figure

phun intended. jezuz loves you all

haha. Definately true.

A lot of people loved Jesus for being mainstream then.

2004-08-10 10:42

yago

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 333

Quote: Let's agree to disagree then, but please don't get mad while the rest of us keep using this term okay? :)

The weather here in Europe is too fscking hot for me to drive heaty discussions about "to be or not to be" a conceptdemo ;-)
Furthermore, if these categories help you to write your Reviews, keep em!
Have Fun,
Zed Yago

2004-08-10 12:30

WVL

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 896

Looks like this discussion is exploding a little bit ;) so i will not mingle in it.

But just to put the facts straight : the multiplexer in the upscroller of Arcanum is _not_ a sorting multiplexer.

Nowhere did i ever claim it was. I'm not even using close to the amount of sprites i could've used (I use about 50% of available sprites). If i'd used more sprites, the upscroller would've been _totally_ unreadable. Thus a sorting algorithm was not necessary.

nice for an effect, but not for readability ;) It IS a 100% random upscroller however, you can test that with a joystick.

As for the discussion : let the fight continue!

2004-08-10 13:16

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086

WVL: I just questioned wether it is, but now we know :)

2004-08-10 13:57

Britelite

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 51

Well, I might be a little late in replying to this thread, but here it goes:

I've watched all the LCP-demos, and I don't think I'll ever watch them ever again (with the exception of the Afrika-demo, which was kind of fun).

I also tend to have a problem with concept-demos, why the hell do they all have to be so bloody ugly? I'm not talking about the code or gfx-modes, but the looks of these demos in general. Ofcourse appearance is a matter of taste, but just because the demo has a story or a message doesn't mean it has to look like shit.

There my 2 cents...

2004-08-10 15:21

hollowman

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474

i was a bit surprised at first when oswald started a thread
critizing certain demos, considering that he himself will
break down as soon as someone isnt 100% positive about his
own stuff
and since the only response i get is angry replies,
without any reflection, i give up on that one.

so over to the next

britelite, i understand that you feel like #1
after winning at assembly(one of the most undeserved
victories in my humblebees opinion), but complaning about
boring and ugly demos? you shouldnt throw bricks
in glasshouses, especially not glasshouses made out
of ugly interlaced 8x8 animations

2004-08-10 15:25

Luca

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 178

I love so much all the stylish nordicpop demos with minimalist taste, it's a personal weak point.
I love VIC-stressing and CPU-killing demos too, watching the monitor asking myself "which way in order to obtain this framerate?" or "how to display so many colors?".
I liked so much Borderline, neat, a specimen of real class; and I liked Harmarkullen and its nice fx.

Am I a stupid borderline dummy user, or should this discussion be never born with those tones and volumes?

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