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2009-11-18 06:54

jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576

Votesystem FAIL

OK, so why the vote system still exists, especially after all the devastating things it produces, is absolutely way beyond me.
It's rarely a representation of an objective, summarized opinion of the community. Either it's a playground for immature ding-dong fights I've had the luck to experience the last time in kindergarten, or it's simply a place for good old fashioned circlejerks.

I second Scout. At least I second the notion that this isn't really a place where I'd like to spend my spare time.

The constant pop-ups of topics considering the defecting vote-system is clearly a sign of something not working here the way it should. And yet, the cry ups keep getting ignored. For years.

Captain obvious is here to present you two options. One is to finally fix it, the other is to remove it for good. The latter one would be probably the best for all of us. And I think I'm speaking in the name of 99% of CSDb users here when I say that. Time to realize we are not IMDb with hundreds of millions of users, where a similar voting model works (more or less). Here, it's flawed and it simply fails on many, many levels

Pretty pretty please. Dudes who make and administer this site. Your work is fucking damn appreciated. I'd suck of all of you without a single second of consideration.

But for fucks sake.

... 187 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2009-11-20 12:59

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293

Quote:

Hello?

For the nth time, some of you obviously missed it, but we already had that poll. And the majority said YES to public votes.

the majority of 20 people (if at all) that took part in a poll is NOT the majority of all users. really. infact such a poll is about as meaningless as the voting result for an entry that got 20 votes :)

also thats not how websites work. if you want fundamental things changed here, you have to convince perff. not me not the majority of users, only perff. and then he might still do it differently, with all right in the world, because it is his site.

but if you can show us a poll with atleast 800 csdb users participating, i am sure he will consider looking at it and thinking about it. as for the annual random blurbs on the topic by always the same people - he is probably ignoring it just like the majority of csdb users =P

2009-11-20 13:11

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293

Quote:

My idea would be to keep the the release comments but allow deletion of any unecessary spam/playground related behaviour from the comments page - if you are the creator of the entry.

wtf? so the creator of an entry can delete all comments that he doesnt like? we should then allow him to delete votes he doesnt like too, shouldnt we?

even users beeing able to edit their very own comments is a constant source for ramblings, and i'd rather see this silly "feature" removed, instead of adding even more nonsense to create more uproar =)

2009-11-20 13:35

V-12

Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 206

I like the system on youtube - creator of entry can select if people can comment or/and vote for his release. It would be cool to have this feature here to prevent spam/downvoting etc. coz people are abusing comment field for discussing, chats, even writting about if tune was or wasn't ripped for hvsc. WTF? Database or what? :)

But still I'm not sure if voting system should be here. It;s funny to see how people vote 10 for pc conversions graphics etc :) or downvote because of personal reasons, not for the bad release. Everyone has his own taste, tastes should't be discussed or/and voted imho.

2009-11-20 13:41

jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576

Quoting Groepaz

the majority of 20 people (if at all) that took part in a poll is NOT the majority of all users. really. infact such a poll is about as meaningless as the voting result for an entry that got 20 votes :)

I recall more than 20 votes on that poll, but whatever.

Considering the rest of your post, you're absolutely right and I've never said otherwise. Perff is the one who should have the final word on every aspect of the site.
And CSDb wouldn't really function without those who contributed to its growth in one way or another, but neither without its casual lurkers. What about at least considering their conceptions, even if not implementing them? The so-called "active users" who contribute more effectively than the rest are not the only ones who use CSDb.

The weight from the flawed votesystem actually lays on the back of those who upload new releases here and share their work. Well, in that matter, I understand why most of those "active users" don't care about, or comment on it's current state.

2009-11-20 14:30

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5076

"if you want fundamental things changed here, you have to convince perff. not me not the majority of users, only perff. and then he might still do it differently, with all right in the world, because it is his site."

Let's not get carried away and forget that this site incorporates also the work of the uploaders & the work need to create the content thats presented here or the money donated to keep the server running. ;)

2009-11-20 14:57

jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576

Quoting Oswald

Let's not get carried away and forget that this site incorporates also the work of the uploaders & the work need to create the content thats presented here or the money donated to keep the server running. ;)

Spot on.

What about those who were putting out releases on a regular basis in the last 8 years and perhaps thought they're more interested in spending their time with creative stuff rather than populating the database? Its a low number compared to the top submitters, but I think I did my best with about 300 submits, still I'm not sure why I'm not as well entitled as an "active user" by Groepaz, although I have contributed to 100+ new releases since CSDb is online.

OK but enough of whining, here's an actual idea. :)

It'd probably need refinement, but what about letting to vote only for those who made a comment on the release?

First of all, since a user would have only one possibility to comment, it would incite a thoughtful reaction and by that, long discussion-threads on release pages would vanish and/or would be moved to the "CSDb Entries" forum, their intended place.

Secondly, it would hearten the objectivity of votes as you'd be forced to state your opinion before a vote, or vice versa.

Comments like "commenting just to vote" would be simply moderated out.

I don't say it would solve the whole "downvoting" problem, as one would still be able to say "wow great stuff" and then give a 1, but seems to me as a small step in a better direction, without infringing the anonymity of those who prefer it. Of course the main problem with it is that it isn't encouraging the increase of votes, but we'd never have enough votes for good stats anyway, so no big harm here.

2009-11-20 15:48

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5076

"one would still be able to say "wow great stuff" and then give a 1"

there it fails :)

I think V-12's proposal is the best: "creator of entry can select if people can comment or/and vote for his release"

2009-11-20 16:05

jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576

Quoting Oswald

"one would still be able to say "wow great stuff" and then give a 1"

there it fails :)

Right I realize that. I'm basing this on a conjecture that if a vote is connected to a comment, it would inspire people to vote more fairly. Of course that doesn't means downvoting will stop suddenly, but perhaps we'd lose a few. Not too much of an improvement but it's maybe better than nothing?

Quoting Oswald

I think V-12's proposal is the best: "creator of entry can select if people can comment or/and vote for his release"

I suggested exactly that three effin years ago, I could even quote the exact thread, what makes you think it will be implemented this time? :)

2009-11-20 16:54

SIDWAVE
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238

Quote: Quoting Oswald
Let's not get carried away and forget that this site incorporates also the work of the uploaders & the work need to create the content thats presented here or the money donated to keep the server running. ;)

Spot on.

What about those who were putting out releases on a regular basis in the last 8 years and perhaps thought they're more interested in spending their time with creative stuff rather than populating the database? Its a low number compared to the top submitters, but I think I did my best with about 300 submits, still I'm not sure why I'm not as well entitled as an "active user" by Groepaz, although I have contributed to 100+ new releases since CSDb is online.

OK but enough of whining, here's an actual idea. :)

It'd probably need refinement, but what about letting to vote only for those who made a comment on the release?

First of all, since a user would have only one possibility to comment, it would incite a thoughtful reaction and by that, long discussion-threads on release pages would vanish and/or would be moved to the "CSDb Entries" forum, their intended place.

Secondly, it would hearten the objectivity of votes as you'd be forced to state your opinion before a vote, or vice versa.

Comments like "commenting just to vote" would be simply moderated out.

I don't say it would solve the whole "downvoting" problem, as one would still be able to say "wow great stuff" and then give a 1, but seems to me as a small step in a better direction, without infringing the anonymity of those who prefer it. Of course the main problem with it is that it isn't encouraging the increase of votes, but we'd never have enough votes for good stats anyway, so no big harm here.

I like your idea, at least i can see the point in it fully!

Thats kinda how pouet works, which i like, except it cannot be used directly for ranking stuff. (too less votes to build real good numbers from)

at pouet you choose thumbs up/down, and then have a comment to 'explain' your view.

this seems rather easy digestable to me, you get more honest or thought over comments, to me it looks that way anyway. PLUS its public. so when i stand in the crowd and hear "what a bucket of crap!" i can see who said that, and directly say back "why ?" or "fuck off, get a life!" etc.

like i said, that way is encouraging more REVIEW type feeedback, than typical human "I JUDGE YOU!" feedback - and i just think that scene is a family, and we should encourage this nasty human treat away from us, because at any party i was too, we never ever have this kind of behaviour.

often human way to use a medium like internet where you can post whatever the hell kind of insanity on, anonymously, makes it all a big no brainer, where as when people take responsibility for their actions, they gain more respect and positive productive things are naturally enhanced.

the way a website works, has EVERYTHING to do with how its gonna be used.

if it encourages some behaviour by design, this behaviour will grow. (this is the kindergarten syndrome)

my whole crusade here and being agressive about it, is that i want to raise awareness of how the users create the system, and are not slave to some stiff computer tech which force them become bitching and moaning idiots, about how the system wont do as they desire it to do.

Look how user groups on facebook, protested against stiff rules and conducts by the 'system' whoever runs facebook, to preserve as much as possible of their possibility to not be slaves to the system. and they win, because somewhere inside facebook leaders are real humans, who are aware of these issues.

well well...

we all want the same thing, there is just so many ways to achieve it.

2009-11-20 19:37

fade
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290

delete the voting option. fixed!

You can't compare Dutch Breeze to Edge of Disgrace and it's stupid to even try. I don't care if you're on the internet. Maybe everybody can get 10 votes to a category, if you make an eleventh vote, your number ten loses it's point.

Shitstirring belongs on facebook, we are all brothers here.. sure we are all the red haired stepchild, but brothers none the less. Also, cocks.

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