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2015-09-16 11:56

Bitbreaker

Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 508

Release id #141198 : Refugees Welcome

I heard, this release needs an extra discussion thread, now go and throw shit everyone :-D

... 49 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2015-09-16 20:22

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057

Quote: Quoting ZeSmasher
open a FB account then. it's free :)
I'm the guilty one who started the discussion, hehe... I've nothing against you and your petscii art, but -yes- when I saw your entry I indeed thought "oh noes, not here as well!".
greetz! Ze'

Or, you know, if you think you're getting flooded with it on Facebook you could close your Facebook account :P

I did... (around march) #idiocracy

2015-09-17 06:38

jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578

First of all, once these people left Syria and reached a safe place, they are no longer running from oppression or war. Stop calling them refugees.

Secondly, with its sheer naive primitiveness, the only thing this crappy release managed to achieve, is to reduce my already low sympathy towards economic migrants, whilst increasing my dislike facing all those, who - led by their oblivious, ignorant, overly excessive political correctness - support the migrants' uncivilized violation of a sovereign country's laws, borders, and their outright disrespect of European culture and values.

So, thanks, wysiwtf. Great stuff you got there.

2015-09-17 07:26

Isildur

Registered: Sep 2006
Posts: 275

Video from Hungarian border. How many poor, starving kids do you see there?
Video

Personally, I don't want such people in my neighborhood or in my country.

2015-09-17 08:50

Bitbreaker

Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 508

Quoting Jailbird

... and their outright disrespect of European culture and values.

This is why some EU countries start to play the fashist or anti european card, and accepting christian refugees or alike only (they are still at the border there, so still in a refugee state, for the nitpickers).
Of course it is on the other hand totally legit for other members of the EU to come here for a better income or job. They are no economic immigrants of course.
I see :-D

And to list a few more European values to ponder about if they are treated well in all member countries, just before insisting further on European values:

freedom of speech
freedom of travel
freedom of faith
freedom of press

2015-09-17 09:22

Sounx
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2006
Posts: 30

Jailbird is right.

Real refugees would welcome ANY place where they were treated correctly and could just take a rest. They would be happy with any food and/or drinks they got, they wouldn't throw it away like garbage!!

These are ruthless economic migrants that want to exploit our social system and they bring along a culture of agression and violence with them: They are displaying their real intentions at the Hungarian border!

As this particular release seems to be directed at the masses of economic migrants and dismisses the fact that refugees are very different from those migrants, the message is over-simplified and from my point of view just plain wrong.

2015-09-17 09:57

jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578

Quoting Bitbreaker

This is why some EU countries start to play the fashist or anti european card, and accepting christian refugees or alike only (they are still at the border there, so still in a refugee state, for the nitpickers).

What border? They already passed Turkey, Greece (part of EU, mind you), Macedonia and Serbia. So, according to your logic, they'll be refugees as long as they don't enter their country of destination? Read up on the 1951 Geneva Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees: they are not refugees by definition.

Quoting Bitbreaker

Of course it is on the other hand totally legit for other members of the EU to come here for a better income or job. They are no economic immigrants of course.

No one told otherwise. Sure thing, everyone is an economic migrant who's migrating in order to seek an improvement in living standards. Yet the interesting thing is, up until now, I've never seen people mass rioting on the borders and tossing their own children into the air because they were denied of entering a country due to visa restrictions.
A country's specific policies directed to economic migrants or refugees exist for, yes you guessed it, economical reasons.

Quoting Bitbreaker

freedom of speech
freedom of travel
freedom of faith
freedom of press

2015-09-17 09:58

DeeKay

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 363

I just don't get this distinction between "real" and "economic" migrants. IMHO it's stupid and pointless. What difference does ot make if we destroy a person's livelihood through bombs or economic measures (trade agreements, industrial overfishing, a forced zero import tax, never kept promises of economic aid etc)? Either way, he cannot take care for his family anymore and needs to go elsewhere to seek work!

2015-09-17 10:05

Bitbreaker

Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 508

Quoting Bitbreaker

freedom of speech
freedom of travel
freedom of faith
freedom of press

All these privileges do not mean you're entitled to do whatever the fuck you want and desire in Europe (or anywhere in the world, for that matter). By having freedom, you do not hold right to disrespect the laws of a country you are residing or want to enter, or worse, to make up your own petty laws without any consequences. Also, you are not warranted to attack legitimate patrons of borders you're not welcome to pass. If you act like a savage, don't expect to be tolerated or accepted, whether you're German, Hungarian or Syrian. You're no more a victim, but a culprit of turmoil and disorder.[/quote]

It is meant the other way round: Are we allowed to refuse people for their wrong faith? And isn't freedom of press in Hungary under high pressure?
Also, those values seem to be good and worth to achieve, that explains why so many want to come here. The differences of the interpretation of those values can be seen in the preferences of destination countries the people have.

2015-09-17 10:24

DeeKay

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 363

Btw: It's not some benevolent altruistic deed to provide shelter for refugees that we can demand gratitude for, but our goddamn duty as countries that have signed the Geneva Convention. Syrians owe us shit, first and foremost no gratitude, since it was us (ie our governments) that helped destroy their country, by economic sanctions, providing weapons to Qatar and Saudiarabia (two of the major supporters of ISIS!) and by supporting the braindead Terrorist- and refugee-genrating Middle-east-meddling of the USA...

2015-09-17 10:31

jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578

Quoting Bitbreaker

It is meant the other way round: Are we allowed to refuse people for their wrong faith?

No, we are not. But the people who are currently denied from entering Hungary are not refused to enter because of their faith (there are plenty of Christians among them).

Quoting Bitbreaker

And isn't freedom of press in Hungary under high pressure?

No. At the moment, some of the most popular news portals are notoriously anti-government. Favored commercial TV stations are also more close to the opposition.

Quoting Bitbreaker

Also, those values seem to be good and worth to achieve, that explains why so many want to come here.

As long as they understand and accept civilized values without taking advantage of them, furthermore, actively try assimilate into the culture and society we're embracing and living in - instead of rejecting and standing up against it - I have no problem with anyone coming to live in my neighborhood.

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