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Forums > C64 Pixeling > old VIC vs new VIC
2007-09-22 10:38
Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 965
old VIC vs new VIC

There seems to be someone (I won't mention his name ;)), whose effort I appreciate, but he's uploading screenshots with old VIC colours (or something that should resemble it).

As far as I know there are not many scene artists that worked with old VIC, else the gradients would be different than the way they are. For example, new VIC gradients like brown, orange, pink, light grey, standard gradient, seen everywhere. If this gradient was drawn on old VIC, the artist would've used brown, pink, orange, light grey, but the artist didn't. So it is almost certain the graphics are done with new VIC and not with old VIC.

Frankly, I think the screenshots don't do the graphics justice, how horrible the graphics may be, so it would be nice if the one who's uploading the screenshots with old VIC palet considers this before uploading it. I mean, repect to the artist, man. :)
 
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2007-09-24 20:14
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11523
there ARE only two major revisions... the very first one (here referred as "old" one) has less luma steps than the others. all the others are more or less the same, with slight differences in the luma.
2007-09-24 20:15
tlr

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1814
The grey dot stuff was introduced with the HMOS versions though, so that's a third revision.
2007-09-24 20:37
Twoflower

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 436
The later, HMOS (C64C/C64G), revisions has generally worse and paler color temperatures than the ones in the breadbins. That's a fact. Ask any C64 pixel artist with more than one kind of C64 and a decent monitor.

I'd say there are three different revisions. The ceramic one with the fucked up lumas, the good mid-revisions, and the pale HMOS revisions.
2007-09-24 20:46
tlr

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1814
Well you can't go entierly by ceramic, look at Markos measurements here: http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/documents/chipdata/656x-..

I think basically all Old VICs are pre 1983, so there are not too many out there.
2007-09-24 20:48
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11523
well yes.... and no :) the colors also differ slightly from one c64 to another with exactly the same type of vic :) infact the colors itself should be exactly the same in all vic revisions, and the differences caused by the external circuitry (video encoder).

edit: btw, try the pal emu patch i posted in the other thread....there is a chance that you can use the stuff i added to get the look of the differences you are referring to (and if so, it would kinda proove that the differences are caused by external circuitry).
2007-09-24 21:57
Sledge

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 103
Quote: The later, HMOS (C64C/C64G), revisions has generally worse and paler color temperatures than the ones in the breadbins. That's a fact. Ask any C64 pixel artist with more than one kind of C64 and a decent monitor.

I'd say there are three different revisions. The ceramic one with the fucked up lumas, the good mid-revisions, and the pale HMOS revisions.


Yes, you are right. The best version is from the 1984 breadbins and up to the C64E. But sometimes the old 6569 chips with the "bad luma" gives a very smooth and colorful impression when used right. As in alot of games, but not that many demos.

2007-09-24 22:01
Sledge

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 103
Groepaz: One way to verify is to put a 6569 in a newer C64. I have done it, and although it was 3-4 years ago, I think you are right. I didn't get the old colors by just replacing the chip.

Also, I get better colors on a C64-E by connecting it via the RF, than via the scart. Well, atleast on some of my revisions.

2007-09-25 01:01
Deev

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206
Quote:
The later, HMOS (C64C/C64G), revisions has generally worse and paler color temperatures than the ones in the breadbins. That's a fact. Ask any C64 pixel artist with more than one kind of C64 and a decent monitor.

I'd say there are three different revisions. The ceramic one with the fucked up lumas, the good mid-revisions, and the pale HMOS revisions.



I never liked the colours on my C64C, the white is too bright (I barely used it for about 3 years!) and the mid-blue, mid-grey, pink etc too dark, meaning colour transitions just don't work as well as they do on the old breadbin.
2007-09-25 06:38
Bizzmo
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 82
I had a breadbin, (with an old VIC - it must have been as the best purple car in Ghostbusters vanished on the grey road!) on my black and white TV. I did the a picture of a Dragon on that black and white TV!

When I upgraded to a colour TV, I had the same problems with white - If I had too much white on the screen (and it didn't take very much) the TV would scream like a wailing banshee!

I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but I spend many hours "knob twiddling" in my bedroom!
2008-02-06 15:10
Necronomfive
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 20
Quote: Well you can't go entierly by ceramic, look at Markos measurements here: http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/documents/chipdata/656x-..

I think basically all Old VICs are pre 1983, so there are not too many out there.


That's not true. I own 3 6569R1 VIC's and all of them have datecodes between 0683 and 1283. The first PAL revision with the "modern" palette, 6569R3, was also ceramic, at least the first batch.

The very best picture is created by the very last brown breadbin C64's from late 1985 / early 1986. Super sharp picture, no vertical bars in the video, and vibrant colours.
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