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Adam The Axe
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 6 |
The Scene as it was.
I was in The Scene, therefore, I know what went on in the C64 scene. I see TOP GROUPS listed over there on the side display and I see DD listed #2, okay, I can buy alittle of that, Robin was a good dude, but there was only 1 number UNO in all of the C64 scene... and as much as I hate to admit, it was ESI, ONLY. Far and away, this group did more for C64 than any group, ever. Fairlight and Red Sector were a close second but not even close to Eaglesoft. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Well, the anti-ESI demos werent regarding if the releases were 100 or not but more to do with the war between UCF and others (so the demos were more regarding the competitive nature as opposed to quality of cracking). |
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icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 90 |
Id agree with THE SHARK-INC here. The general opinion about the NTSC-scene in scandinavia around the mid-late eightes was that the NTSC-scene had alot of cool games but very few quality crackers and coders for that matter, ESI not excluded. Maby it was just pure ignorance from us/me just for simply not being aware of the much harder protections "they" have to cope with. But my opinion about ESI/RAD/NFL/INC/FBR (with others) at that time; cool guys, great releases, but rather low quality of the cracks and rather poor demos. Still the mention groups is to be respected, dont get me wrong here. ESI is one of the biggest groups ever, but personaly I can think of other groups that deservs a higher possition on the top groups charts, 1001 crew for example. They did ALOT of high quality cracks, not just open the sideborder and created ESCOS! ;-)
/Icon-REM |
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Nightlord
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 131 |
i think one should not worry too much about the "Top Groups" charts as it inherently has the "apples vs oranges" concept. It is just a side effect from the more sensible charts like "Top Cracker Groups" and "Top Demo Groups". Just my 2 cents |
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Sixx
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 229 |
I like apple-orange lemooooonade. |
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Adam The Axe
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 6 |
Let me put it another way... possibly there would not have been a scene if it hadn't been for ESI,UCF,DD and the sysop bbs's of the early 80's to 1988. I could list many many others but these were the early pioneers of the C64 and early IBM games. Demos were really the euro's thing because they couldn't get the games as fast as the americans so they couldn't crack as fast. The rule was, whoever put it out first got the credit, which is why the cracks were not that good. If you didn't get it out today, someone else was putting it out tomorrow. Most good groups had insiders in computer stores. Demos were what euros did to compensate for the lack of cracks. Some games were sent to DD, Fairlight,etc because of the lack of a good cracker. At one point, there were games coming out everyday, my group, which was anarchist and trading would send games to others in europe, like Robin,Radwar,Red Sector and even Triad to get cracks. Crest wasn't even a gleam in Mitch's eye and I'm sure they are good demo writers, but they were not about the scene when it was a scene. I can say the euros were the smartest young c64 composers of demos and music. Americans didn't do demos, we had the WAREZ! That's why I say there is only one #1, even though I hated all of them, they were what made the scene happen. Find anyone that was anyone from 1983 to 1988 and they will tell you the same. There was many facets to the scene, crackers,sysops,phreakers,black boxers,music,demos,anarchist, etc. Don't want to step on toes but I was there. I found this place recently because I was looking for an old friend in my group, his name was Popoo, so if anyone knows anything about him, let me know. Also, Popoo had the largest collection of C64 software of anyone, he never deleted a thing and had one of the largest BBS's around during that time. Talk to me. |
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Adam The Axe
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 6 |
BTW, Graham, you are about 3 years out of place if you came in at 1991. DD was dead (sorry) long before 1991. Also, do you know any people from Sunrise, they were a demo group, I think from around Bielefeld? |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
"Demos were really the euro's thing because they couldn't get the games as fast as the americans so they couldn't crack as fast."
Americans propably got american games first, but you ignore the fact that the majority of C64 games was made in Europe.
Also, demo coders usually became demo coders because coding was more interesting to them than cracking. Investing a lot of time to understand other people's code is boring to some people who prefer to create own things.
And finally: I coded a lot of stuff on C64 long before 1991 and also did a few cracks. But at some point I got so bored about games I deleted them all and focussed entirely on demos. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
The biggest games were in the USA in the eighties. The UK had some big ones but not until much later on. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 946 |
I think the Top Groups chart is based on 25 years of scene activities, not only first 5 years. If Crossbow finds new features even today, I'd say Crest deserves the no.1 spot. |
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icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 90 |
@Adam the axe: I had never heard of ESi or UCF or any other of the NTSC groups when I started my first group in 85 or so. As you say the history of "the scene" has many different facets and according to whom you speak with regarding where in the world you come from it seems that it sprung up alot of different "scenes" in different places in the world at the same time, but with WAY different influences. When we write 2007 and most of us still interesting in the old commie gathering around a few sites and IRC channels on the net we can get the perspective of the BIG picture and it just dont match the way we remember it. What Im trying to say blabbing away here is that to say that there wouldnt be any scene without the BBS'es and the NTSC groups its a big overstatement. I can easierly say that it woulnt be any scene without MR.Z, the whole cnet, WCC, BAM, JEDI and even the mighty Bogg, but that wouldnt be true for a guy in Australia started out in 85 or so. To say that the PAL scene lacked(!) of cracks or games to crack is just untrue and just shows that the NTSC guys back then knew just as little about "us" that we knew about "them". ;-)
Greetz Icon |
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