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Kickback
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 97 |
What makes a demo? Really?
Looking at all the talk about the EoD and it being the "best" demo to date on the c64 brings up a topic I was throwing around in my head for sometime now.
Before I start congratz BD for the great demo and the hard work that you guys put into it. A very good product indeed to date on the c64.
I admit I was pounding the keyboard/website every day to finally get my hands on this. Like a piece of smack ready to light it up. Admit it everyone, YOU was one of those guys to pound on CSDB's doors looking for it.
But as I watched the demo I noticed something, I remember some demos back HCL said something to the fact that he refuses to do any PC type effects on this system. (This was some years ago). Which me being an old geezer and love the c64 stylish demos was happy to hear this.
But as the years went on and times have changed so has the demos. As I look around now most demos are more PC stylish instead of the c64ish that most have come to know. I think this is why some people say that this demo isn't thee "best" on the c64.
Which I can agree because everyone has there own tastes when it comes to demos. So now when I look at demos, I guess we can say retro demos compared to the demos of today, can you really compare them? And say well that is better, and this one is better.
I know there is ALOT of geezers out there my age and older then me and I think they can relate to this? I don't believe most "newer?" guys can relate to it.
Anyway, my question is what really makes a demo? If I have vectors in my demo and the next guy has some interlaced rasters, is the vector demo better? Yes yes I know what you will say, well it comes down to how its presented?
Ok so does presentation beat out technique/technical or is it visa versa? Or is it combination? I seen alot of talk about NW2 and how it just didn't have that "graham" twist to it? Graham meaning? Vectors?
I'm not slashin on anyone or anybody, like I said this question is something I kicked around upstairs in my head for awhile and I think maybe now is a great time to ask it?
Anyone?
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Puterman
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188 |
EOT |
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VIC
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 73 |
Quote: this question cannot be answered. what makes a good music? a nice painting? a nicely designed web page?
Chuck Norris does all of those... |
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Kickback
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 97 |
Quote: I second that! It's the pace!!! The beast begins with nice pictures, kewl sound then some simple 2 lines "proudly presents"... And this is when the final gear is already reached! You fly through the demo and have no time to swallow what you get served. Those who have NOT seen it on the big screen might not understand/share this opinion?!
[Edit]
Just to be more precise: X2008 Democompo was teh megashow!
[/Edit]
Ah yes, see I have not had the pleasure of seeing demos on the big screen (well my big 60in teley) with many people cheering and all. Thats just an experience in itself. Maybe one day I will get the plane over and see a X.
I do think that makes a huge difference due to the experience in itself.
@oswald: Hehe.. Lets simplify it for you then, so technical with you (meaning the question) I should have known I couldn't get away with this with you.
So lets say for you, what do YOU call a good demo?
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Again this is general question, I'm not asking what demo do you think can beat out this or that. I am asking what do you think makes a demo? (for YOU not for everyone)
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Kickback
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 97 |
Quote: Chuck Norris does all of those...
\0/
C H U C K!!!!!
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Spectator
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 35 |
Is there anything such as "pc effects"?
The PC is just a platform which ppl use to compile on. If the PC would be non existent and the c64 would still be the only platform most ppl would be compiling similar stuff as they now do on pc (with their abilities being the limiting factor).
Just cause it's new doesn't mean it's infected. Things evolve.
To me a killer demo is any production which expresses new views, which then highly influence the ideas of others.
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
A good demo for me is a demo that makes me feel something that in some way has a positive impact on my life. |
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Kickback
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 97 |
Quote: Is there anything such as "pc effects"?
The PC is just a platform which ppl use to compile on. If the PC would be non existent and the c64 would still be the only platform most ppl would be compiling similar stuff as they now do on pc (with their abilities being the limiting factor).
Just cause it's new doesn't mean it's infected. Things evolve.
To me a killer demo is any production which expresses new views, which then highly influence the ideas of others.
Well for me I didn't have an amiga (actually got a 1000 later tho) and got a PC first. Which at the time some demos from people like future crew was making demos on there. So when I refer to stuff as being "pc effects" thats due to what I said above.
I'm not sure as to which effects came out first on which platform. But I do know, do to the limited hardware on the PC most stuff was vector based. No real raster/blitter support during that time. Unlike the amiga with all its nice hardware support.
So that is why I say "pc effects", amiga had them also but they also had c64ish effects also. Someone had a topic going about "no new raster effects" or something to that nature. Which if it's not a raster effect what would you call it?
PC effect? Amiga effect? Effect?
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
a raster effect is any effect that uses $d011/$d012?
I dunno, maybe I'm being to general now...
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http://zomgwtfbbq.info |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
If you mean: What makes a good demo, some words spring to mind:
Balance
Design (a theme holding everything together can be difficult)
Originality
Style (ask TDJ/Focus, hell tell you all about that ;)
Size (2 disk sides being ideal - and allows for the Turn Disk pt.)
Hitting uncharted technical limits (for the extra wow factor)
Mix all 5 and that pretty much generates the ultimate demo.
everyone has there own tastes - This is one area no demo can guarantee success.
For me the ultimate demo would contain 1x each effect known on the C64 (and possibly none seen before). These effects would be perfectly executed, contain jaw dropping graphics, equally impressive audio, and transist between one another. No part would repeat. As well as effects, other parts to include would include: Greetings , Turn Disk, Intro, The End, and an animation of some sort (everyone has there own tastes).
All in all, quite a tall order, an impossible order.
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
On this I can be very brief (yeah, as if): to me a good demo is one that stirs up emotions, of any kind. Euphoria for example, which is something Edge of Disgrace apparently managed to do last week at the X, but fear & sadness are much more interesting to me, negative or not. That's one of the reasons why I hold Brief Bursts of Happiness so dear. And all those other things mentioned here before (coding, graphics, design, even concept) are just the building blocks needed to evoke these emotions.
Pull the strings of my heart baby, and you get my vote ;)
Edit: a demo that makes me think can do the trick for me as well from time to time. Best is the combination between these two, which I guess is the reason I am such a big fan of Hollowman. |
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