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2005-04-12 10:15

Slartibartfast
Account closed

Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230

** Link removed by CSDb staff due to copyright. Please do not provide download links to this **

Well, there has been a few of these notices today, on certain Protovision releases that have been cracked and released by some people on CSDb.

Cracking has always been a large part of the scene, arguably the biggest and also what has ultimately ensured the scene to exist today.

If it weren't for cracking, piracy if you will, many games simply wouldn't be available on the web today. The C64dtv wouldn't have much of a lineup, all the games on it were cracks from the scene.

Now this issue has come to CSDb again, over old releases of Protovision games. Download links removed, to files which are definitely a part of the scene.

I can understand the policy on this, it's a way to protect CSDb against legal action. Other sites, for instance GB64, have tackled this by not hosting the files and just providing links to them.

But CSDb won't allow even that, if someone has an issue with their copyrighted work being available, the links will be removed. Even links provided by the user in their comment to the entry, will be censored and removed.

There is nothing regarding this policy in the CSDb FAQ, yet there is this disclaimer:

"Who's responsible for this?
We cannot take responsibility for the content of this database as all information is submitted by users."

So, that says straight out that CSDb is not responsible for the content.

It can be said that this is a way to protect CSDb in future, but from whom exactly? Can anyone honestly see Chronosoft or Protovision sueing anyone? Or if this is a measure to protect CSDb, could it go further and remove all cracks from the site?

On the other hand, CSDb are just trying to protect themselves, from Protovision apparently. Should we take the old debate over piracy directly to Protovision? As sceners themselves, they should know better than to be taking on this issue against sceners. Don't we all know by now that the people who would download these cracks, are not the same people that would buy it? That some of the people that get the game for free may even consider buying it at a later point?

One of the Protovision founders was a cracker himself, other members have been crackers, swappers or undoubtedly recipients of pirated software themselves.

This seemed to start with Macgyver altering a release of a PTV game here yesterday. A member of Protovision and also a CSDb admin. He was a swapper in the past.

Is this censorship really necessary? Do Protovision really think they would lose sales of these games, does CSDb really think there is any threat of legalities from an admin of this site?

This is an issue that strikes deep with many in the scene, and this site is an essential part of the scene today.

Surely there must be a better way to deal with this.

So let's discuss it here rather than in comments on these censored releases ;)

... 209 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2005-04-16 10:18

Jazzcat

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044

CreaMD: basically if he fell off his horse he should just get back up on it again. Big deal.

2005-04-23 22:43

Westbam
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 192

Quote: Here's the thing we all should give a thought...

The internet is not a geek thing anymore, everybody and his grandma surfs the web or googles around. That includes company employees and lawyers.
I don't know about you, but I'd rather have all links to cracks removed than have someone who still owns the right to this or that game discover that there's some quick money to make and sue the Noname guys just because he legally can.

Just a week or so ago, a german publishing company lost the case where they were sued for 500,000 Euro in damages by the music industry because they published an article about a DVD copying program (programs that circumvent copy protections are considered illegal in Germany) and supplied a link to the vendor's webpage. ( http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/58249 )

In a world where things like that happen, I'd rather be on the safe side, even if it means not to list URLs to cracks of games that most of the time aren't worth the trouble to download them anyways.

Haven´t had the time to drop by on a regular basis lately so I just ran into your nonsense post right now. As you refer on this matter to the article written by Heise Verlag (Heise News)I assume you are a german citizen. I eagerly presume you´d go back and read the article concerning this matter again. This might enligten you (finally)...

Heise Verlag has never been sued for 500000.- on this matter. In case you simply still don´t understand what this was all about you should go and read this thread:

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/foren/go.shtml?read=1&msg_id=774..

to understand the matter. I guess this thread was created because there seem to be more blind kids like you that cannot read...

However, argueing about copyright protections and their legal terms is propably the most stupid topic I have ever seen or read on a board system build for pirates...

I remember Walter Konrad once trying to treaten pirates not to crack his Game On / Magic Disk crap... The "marvellous" (yeah right) Co-Founder of WOD/711 trying to tread pirates, now that makes sense. Same situation on this Protovision topic...

2005-04-23 23:51

Jazzcat

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044

Westbam: nice to see some more truth revealed!

Yes, this thread was created to try and make some points across to some ignorant kids, but unfortunately they seem more blind than initially thought.

One of the reasons why I'm publishing a new magazine (RECOLLECTION) is because of blind fools who have a misconception on what the scene is about. Hopefully it will save them, whereas this thread hasn't.

2005-04-24 09:13

Mason

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 461

Quote: Haven´t had the time to drop by on a regular basis lately so I just ran into your nonsense post right now. As you refer on this matter to the article written by Heise Verlag (Heise News)I assume you are a german citizen. I eagerly presume you´d go back and read the article concerning this matter again. This might enligten you (finally)...

Heise Verlag has never been sued for 500000.- on this matter. In case you simply still don´t understand what this was all about you should go and read this thread:

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/foren/go.shtml?read=1&msg_id=774..

to understand the matter. I guess this thread was created because there seem to be more blind kids like you that cannot read...

However, argueing about copyright protections and their legal terms is propably the most stupid topic I have ever seen or read on a board system build for pirates...

I remember Walter Konrad once trying to treaten pirates not to crack his Game On / Magic Disk crap... The "marvellous" (yeah right) Co-Founder of WOD/711 trying to tread pirates, now that makes sense. Same situation on this Protovision topic...

hah I remember the story about Game On / Magic Disk.

Its not the only situations we have seen with Protovision and Magic Disk/Game On, but I guess most people took it more like a task by doing funny protections. Timex is a good example. For some it was easy for others it was so hard it kept away most crackers.

2005-04-24 14:16

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3048

Quote: Westbam: nice to see some more truth revealed!

Yes, this thread was created to try and make some points across to some ignorant kids, but unfortunately they seem more blind than initially thought.

One of the reasons why I'm publishing a new magazine (RECOLLECTION) is because of blind fools who have a misconception on what the scene is about. Hopefully it will save them, whereas this thread hasn't.

Save? Is that all about "nostalgia and reccolections". How about evolution and future?

2005-04-24 14:50

Seven

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202

Westbam (for once) is right - my apologies. Heise wasn't sued for 500,000, that was a sum the judge came up with somehow.
However, it doesn't change the fact that publishing a link is what got them in trouble.

That being said... David, I think you misunderstood the "blind kids" part of Westbam's post.

2005-04-25 05:28

Jazzcat

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044

Seven: nah, my use of blind was not in reference to Westbam's post. More of a shot at some of the crap I hear from different people. It is amazing when you read some people's perception of the scene, the record needs to be set right.

2005-04-25 08:44

Crossfire
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221

Quote: Save? Is that all about "nostalgia and reccolections". How about evolution and future?

Evolution? Future? C64? Ehrm, come on, you cannot be serious.. If you want evolution and future you should seek other machinery, the only sensible reason for being active on C64 must be for nostalgic reasons...

2005-04-25 12:07

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3048

Quote: Evolution? Future? C64? Ehrm, come on, you cannot be serious.. If you want evolution and future you should seek other machinery, the only sensible reason for being active on C64 must be for nostalgic reasons...

Maybe you have 3 groups after your handle for nostalgic reasons. You maybe visit these forums for nostalgic reasons. But this site wasn't made for nostalgic reasons. And although I disagree with some points, I believe Jazzcat's project won't be made for nostalgic reasons.

Retro gamers, remixers, most of c.s.c. newsgroups users and "power" users, lemon64.com forum users and visitors, game remakers and maybe even major party organisers who still keep C64 compos, can be considered nostalgiac, but the fact that those people are in majority doesn't automatically mean that driving forces of active and creative sceners belong to the same cathegory.

I of course use new technologies in my everyday life, but if I feel like it, I still enjoy composing on C64, watch demos, and even play games once in a very long while. And of course people around this machine are (ahem) cool.

2005-04-26 00:11

Crossfire
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221

Quote: Maybe you have 3 groups after your handle for nostalgic reasons. You maybe visit these forums for nostalgic reasons. But this site wasn't made for nostalgic reasons. And although I disagree with some points, I believe Jazzcat's project won't be made for nostalgic reasons.

Retro gamers, remixers, most of c.s.c. newsgroups users and "power" users, lemon64.com forum users and visitors, game remakers and maybe even major party organisers who still keep C64 compos, can be considered nostalgiac, but the fact that those people are in majority doesn't automatically mean that driving forces of active and creative sceners belong to the same cathegory.

I of course use new technologies in my everyday life, but if I feel like it, I still enjoy composing on C64, watch demos, and even play games once in a very long while. And of course people around this machine are (ahem) cool.

Right, CreaMD - what is your point exactly? It must be important since you also mail me your response?....all you do is apparently disagreeing with me but the points you put out are the same I did...if you don't have anything to say, then don't feel obligated, ok?

Not that I really care, honestly. I'm here because I think it's fun and for purely nostalgic reasons. I have three groups in my handle cause those are some of my ex-groups, do you see me calling myself active under any of them, maybe? In fact, if you had bothered keeping up to date you would know that I've said a thousand times that I wasn't going to be active, eventhough a lot of people tried to get me started again, but I fail to see the reason when I have so many others things to do these days, workwise, private life, etc. etc.

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