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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Votesystem FAIL
OK, so why the vote system still exists, especially after all the devastating things it produces, is absolutely way beyond me.
It's rarely a representation of an objective, summarized opinion of the community. Either it's a playground for immature ding-dong fights I've had the luck to experience the last time in kindergarten, or it's simply a place for good old fashioned circlejerks.
I second Scout. At least I second the notion that this isn't really a place where I'd like to spend my spare time.
The constant pop-ups of topics considering the defecting vote-system is clearly a sign of something not working here the way it should. And yet, the cry ups keep getting ignored. For years.
Captain obvious is here to present you two options. One is to finally fix it, the other is to remove it for good. The latter one would be probably the best for all of us. And I think I'm speaking in the name of 99% of CSDb users here when I say that. Time to realize we are not IMDb with hundreds of millions of users, where a similar voting model works (more or less). Here, it's flawed and it simply fails on many, many levels
Pretty pretty please. Dudes who make and administer this site. Your work is fucking damn appreciated. I'd suck of all of you without a single second of consideration.
But for fucks sake. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quoting OswaldThrust Concert [1986]
http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=2094
this demo is heavily upvoted!! something not working here the way it should. And yet, the cry ups keep getting ignored. For years!!!!!!!!!!11111
*sigh*
No need for ridiculing, really. The topic was opened as the votesystem isn't working regardless if people vote up or down.
And that's just another example.
The solution?
Quoting enthusiEach CSDb-scener has alist of 5 (or 10) all-time-fav demos/gfx/crack/tools (or just releases).
Those are public :) [though that is not necessary for this system]
The Top 10 of each category is generated daily based on the overall number a release appears in one of those lists.
So if 100 people have DeuxExMachine in their top5 this is better than a demo that only 90 people consider their personal top5.
This will give weight to old releases as well and nothing will/can be downvoted...
I see no point in differing between VERY bad and VERY VERY bad like it is now...
We need a BESTOF and that's all...
Downvoting will then be equal to NOT having a demo in his/her own list ;-) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
nah just having fun. take this as my excuse:
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11350 |
that can only be used to create better "charts" though. it doesnt fix the problem with individual results for individual entries at all (infact, it would make it worse, a lot even) |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
IMHO, charts would be more than enough. |
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Deev
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206 |
I can see that system would work well for overall charts, though for individual releases I quite like getting votes. I'm not bothered about occasional down votes, whether it's consistent with other similar releases or if there are enough votes to create a true reflection. I simply find it interesting to see what individual people think of something I created. |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
we are getting somewhere :)
charts would work that way (see above) I think.
Charts should reflect what really rules ;-)
While votes - as in "do people like this" are something
completely different. For votes its ok to give 1 or 10.
Usually downvoters dont like the release indeed ;-)
Then the system could simply average again (or rather use the median). |
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Perff
Administrator
Posts: 1676 |
I've been following this thread in silence for some time now (havn't read all posts though!)
But now I'll speak up! (Let me know if I say something stupid, or repeat what others already said. ;) )
What I hear is that a votingsystem as we have today will never work for real, as we don't have a gazillion users who all vote.
Stuff can be added to filter out obvious crap-voters (I try doing that already), and min no. of votes can be set higher to avoid entries pupping up on 1st place with only a few votes.
I agree, but still I personally like the voting system. In general I think it works ok enough. There will always be exceptions, but hey - where can't you find that? :)
Ideas to trim the system is always welcome. I thought about setting min no. of votes up from 5 to 10. Not much, but still.. ?
Perhaps doing something to get more to vote?
Then I can sense that the idea about an all-time-fav list is liked here?
If it's made it will not replace the current ratings, as I think this system has one big flaw. It only regards the very best releases. Mid-class stuff will never apear on any all-time-fav list, and will therefor not get rated at all, and that is a shame I think.
So this would only mention the very best of things, but this could still be interresting.
I've been working a bit on such a system, but I need to clear out a few things first.
My idea is that there will be some "Add release to my fav-list" on all release-pages. Some kind of gfx-button would be nice. Anyone out there who can make something?
Also we need a "Remove release from my fav-list" thing (also some gfx would be nice).
How many entries should you be able to add to your list? 10? 20?
Should the list be split into categories? (demos, gfx, cracks, etc) or should it just be one big pool? (If yes, which categories?)
Hm.. Well. Thats about it I think. :)
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
I agree.
Votes for a release-specific rating and my(tm) idea for all-time charts.
I would prefer max of 20 entries but other than that an arbitrary number (0-20).
Also Id prefer 6 separate categories, but only main ones.
1) demo
2) crack
3) gfx (only one for all formats!)
4) SID
5) tool (incl. cross platform)
6) game
For further reference I call this proposal
enthusi_1.0 *g*
The sixth category is limited to scene releases.
I admit this one is discussable.
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quote:min no. of votes can be set higher to avoid entries pupping up on 1st place with only a few votes.
I am all for it. Setting the minimum number of votes to 10 should already improve the system quite a bit.
Quote:Perhaps doing something to get more to vote?
As others pointed out, one should be able to vote directly without being taken to another page. It´s 2009 after all, so maybe you could think about implementing an AJAX solution :) Not sure if that would be enough to seriously raise the number of votes, tho.
What about adding some sort of infobox that appears when a user has not voted for a release yet aswell?
Quote:Then I can sense that the idea about an all-time-fav list is liked here?
If it's made it will not replace the current ratings, as I think this system has one big flaw. It only regards the very best releases. Mid-class stuff will never apear on any all-time-fav list, and will therefor not get rated at all, and that is a shame I think.
I can only second that.
While you´re at it ... I would very much like to be able to vote for .sid entries aswell :) Having some sort of sid chart would be quite interesting, I think. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
It's really great to see some progress here. Especially happy to finally see a response from Perff. Thanks.
Since you made it obvious that you don't want to dismiss the current votesystem, I'd definitely welcome the increase of minimal number of votes for the average calculation. And thinking further on this, how about setting a minimal number of votes for getting into the Top 10 (a similar idea that IMDb does with Top 250) to the average number of all the votes in the category? So lets say, a release would need 7.6 votes to enter the Top 10 area on a release-list with 15 entries and 115 votes. That would eliminate the highly upvoted releases with much less votes than the average release in the category, to suddenly jump into the Top 10. By just looking on the number of votes, that would mean that a release would need at least ~35 votes to get on the Top Demo list. Considering that most of the (popular) demos have at least 30-40 votes, that's quite a fair number. So we'd never seen something like the Thrust Concert appearing on the Top 10 (even it has more than 10 votes)
Considering filtering out the unusual votes. I don't know if you've implemented this yet: filtering out not just the unusually too low/high votes from a certain release, but also filtering out the votes from those users who have an unusual number of too low/high votes without a natural spread around the mid-range. That won't help all the time, right, but could help in some special cases. Edit: just popped into my mind, this would filter out Groepaz, so he'll probably oppose this idea =)
Considering the rest, I second Enthusi and Linus. Except the AJAX thing. :) That won't work too well on boxes with FF/NoScript or simply turned of JS support.
If you haven't found anyone yet, I'd be happy to help out with graphics.
And for all those who were thinking it's "cool" to bitch about the long thread, please keep it to yourself next time. Or wait till we open a similar giganto-topic about the need for tags :) *message sponsored by Oswald |
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