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goto80
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 138 |
single-channel echo (who was first?)
So, the NESers claim FIRST on single-channel echo (1988):
http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=5397
Was this made earlier on the C64?
On the Amiga I'm guessing there was plenty, anyone has any examples?
The war goes on...
:)
In the NESdev thread Neil Baldwin posts a link to his single-channel-echo-feature in his NES-editor. Pretty sweet: http://dutycyclegenerator.com/sound/echo.mp3
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booker
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 334 |
Yeah, but most likely the single-channel-echo in that editor won't work if you'd have ie. a pattern with note after note sequence. The example already gives a room for ghost notes. But it's a nice feat. (for lazy asses) :)
Galway's 1st subtune from Microprose Soccer has pretty awesome 1ch echo slide-ish thingy and it's also from 1988 - perchaps he was faster! :D And that one is a way proper 1ch echo!
Subtune 5 from Galway's "Ping Pong" (1986) uses 3ch echoes - but you have echos on each single channel there :)
Also nice&smooth echoes on 1st and 2nd channel in his "Short Circuit" subtune 3 - 1986 :) |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
Goto80: Well, with such a limited crap sound chip as found in NES, I understand why they'd attempt anything to increase penis length from 1my to 2my :-)
And on c64 I can think of 4 different ways of doing those 1 channel echo things, thanks to our lovely SID chips :-)
But anyways, I guess several of the old game musicians didn't just work on one platform... some might have worked both with c64 and nes. But lets see if we can dig up some 1 channel echo sid tunes from before 1988 :-) |
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goto80
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 138 |
i haven't actually been doing much of this on the c64, but on the amiga it's easy. but hm, 4 ways, ey? you mean e.g playing with gate on/off? to make it more concrete, adding echo to this:
C-4
---
D#4
---
C#4
---
B-4
---
...would be this:
C-4
---
D#4
c-4
C#4
d#4
B-4
c#4
---
b-4
changing the sustain can get clicky
changing the attack might work
changing the filter could also work in a way
changing waveform works
...well, i am sure you have some more elite tricks? :)
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
heh... well, you more or less covered it all, I guess.
(1) Using alternative Attack and trigging the echo-notes, used to work very nicely for me on somewhat fast notes, but that's when using a standard hardrestart.
(2) Then there's the alternative Sustain way.... for me that works best on sounds without hard restart.. can be with or without oscillator reset. Resetting oscillator does make it a bit more clicky.
(3)Another way is to do a direct Sustain change, during a sound... like having a tie note along with changing sustain and setting the "echo" note.
(4)Use some pulse sound that is somewhat square'ish, change it to triangle where you have the echos (also done with tie).
I didn't think of the filter method, as there are too many different sid chips, so you can't be sure that it will sound ok on all of them.
(5) Do a sound that loops and fits to the speed of your music.. something like wave:
41,41,41,41,41,41,41,41,21,21,11,11,LOOP. Use some instrument ADSR setting with a somewhat long Release.
In your music, switch gate off after a few steps, and do your "echo" note(s).
hmm... I guess that's about it... can't think of more ways at the moment, atleast :-)
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Quoting goto80Neil Baldwin As in Neil Baldwin?
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goto80
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 138 |
yes |
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
Quote: i haven't actually been doing much of this on the c64, but on the amiga it's easy. but hm, 4 ways, ey? you mean e.g playing with gate on/off? to make it more concrete, adding echo to this:
C-4
---
D#4
---
C#4
---
B-4
---
...would be this:
C-4
---
D#4
c-4
C#4
d#4
B-4
c#4
---
b-4
changing the sustain can get clicky
changing the attack might work
changing the filter could also work in a way
changing waveform works
...well, i am sure you have some more elite tricks? :)
Amiga chip is basically just a 4 channel DAC with some minor additional features. Echo on C64 would be what jeff mentioned particularly with using another instrument with lower sustain value to simulate same instrument with less volume
ps. I did similar on amiga but alternating echo effect between left and right speaker with volume changes
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Many old sids have echo.. 1986 and onwards..
galway/miami vice... bla, find out yourself.. ;D |
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goto80
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 138 |
come on jan, prove your skills! in miami vice the echo uses a 2nd channel, right? |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
One of the tunes I always loved especially because of the very nice echo effects is Euro-Dance. But these are probably 2 channel, I know. |
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