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Hermit
Registered: May 2008
Posts: 209 |
PhoenixSID project
I'm always so sad when I hear a person who likes & keeps C64 alive with hard work, passes away suddenly..
This happened in 2007 to a 29 years old man called George Pantazopoulos, and a promising project called PhoenixSID.
http://www.myhdl.org/doku.php/projects:phoenixsid_65x81
You can listen the recordings at the above given webpage.
This project is about modelling SID on modern FPGA hardware with analog filter using external capacitors like real SID.
This is not software emulation, but a real hardware SID-implementation of its paralelly working inner units programmed via HDL (Hardware description Language) more precisely, MyHDL.
The FPGA 'program' can even be simulated then 'netlist or wiring' can be transferred to the FPGA from memory..and voila - it's working instantly..
I was very much influenced by this project and maybe will work on it somewhen..
Imagine if this comparatively not so expensive FPGA could be used for 'real' analog filtered SID-sound in a PCI card or connected by USB...and the main point here is not disassembling and depriving many C64s of their SID-chips..
It won't be the real SID but this project is not for dying....anyone can continue if interested and has talent..
Hermit Software Hungary |
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Hermit
Registered: May 2008
Posts: 209 |
Even have some idea about going further with hardware SID-imitation:
What a pleasure would be if we could have a hardware-level SID-Player in our pocket, similar to today's MP3-players.
The appropriate FPGA with enough logic cells could be programmed to hold a SID and a 6510 inside, and maybe a Flash-RAM inside or outside the chip to store .SID files.
The FPGA also could contain USB1.0-compatible port, and drive at least a simple LCD display for song-titles/numbers.
For the needed Voltage-supply (3.3V maybe) would be enough three AAA sized 1.2V accu-cells or a complete Li-ion accu with a Voltage-regulator. 1MB flash could store around 100 SID files to play continuously..
So at the end there would be no need for converting all of our favourite SIDs to mp3 before we can listen them walking in the streets...(not to mention analog-filtered uncompressed SID quality vs. lossly-compressed MP3 quality)
Hermit Software Hungary |
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Hermit
Registered: May 2008
Posts: 209 |
Guess what I found at Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qAZ_l31sEU
And guess what chip: FPGA
Now it just needs a small PCB and CASE....:)
Hermit Software Hungary |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
there is also other toy, made in Poland ;)
http://www.swinkels.tvtom.pl/swinsid/
though I don't think any of those projects will spread - they require quite a lot of work to put together and they won't sell in many units so they will not commercialize :) |
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FATFrost
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 211 |
Plus the fact that nobody wants a swinesid either. ;) |
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Hermit
Registered: May 2008
Posts: 209 |
Yeah, just we should keep in mind that SWINSID is still software-based emulation realized via serially working microcontroller. It has many new functions compared to SID, but for listening SIDs purpose, it won't give the same as real SID (as you can read on the page). Instead musicians can use it to reach new waveforms and more accuracy, etc. that they couldn't reach on original 6581 or 8580 before.
The commercial part is similar in terms as my 3SID tracker, which isn't used (reportedly) much by musicians, as if they somehow have 3SID equipped machine, they even couldn't show their work to others...these specially aimed products can't be spread commercially, as they differ from the 'mainstream' (here I mean original C64 equipped with SID).
PhoenixSID seems trying to approach the SID on an exact way as possible.
I have no experience yet, if FPGA solution would be cheaper or not at production phase, this also would significally affect the commercial part of production.
But personally I would prefer realtime hw-emulation with real capacitors, and I would pay for a unit equipped with it ,if that really beats SID quality without much 'noticeable-by-human' differences.
Hermit Software Hungary |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 120 |
I think the PhoenixSID project sound just awesome. And ofcourse the guy behind it had to go die on us...
I too feel very disturbed when c64's are stripped of SID chips just to power a HardSID, SIDStation or similar device. An FPGA implementation of the SID together with an external analog part would be ideal for those uses.
Also, I bet most of us have far more working c64's than working SID chips these days. Perhaps the FPGA SID could be interfaced to a normal SID socket too, as spareparts for all those c64's lacking sound.
Sure, it's not original hardware, but a lot better than nothing, and done right the sound would probably be not more different than that of different SID revisions and/or individual SID chips. |
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linde
Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 47 |
How about skipping the analog part and just interface a DSP chip running reSID-fp? That sounds more future proof, IMO. |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
realistically any re-implementation of SID is more expensive than real chip as for now ;)
there is also another one on ATmega8 uC:
http://www.roboterclub-freiburg.de/atmega_sound/atmegaSID.html
this one "crossed" with swidsid's c64 bus control would be chapest though obviosuly not exact replacement... I'm not quite into analogue electornics, but I wonder if it's possible to make cheap re-implementation of SID filetrs using few opamps. |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
BTW I just found that the guy responsible for 65x81 died:
http://www.myhdl.org/doku.php/users:george_pantazopoulos:memory..
what a pity... |
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clonK
Account closed
Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 65 |
Quote: How about skipping the analog part and just interface a DSP chip running reSID-fp? That sounds more future proof, IMO.
The analogue part is one of the main draws for me.
I think this PhoenixSID project is onto something :) |
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