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2007-03-22 10:22

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3048

Getting back C64 music compo at BP?

"Quote:

there is only one way to bring them back: release stuff. (oldschool music practically IS the c64 music compo anyway)

"

I don't think that getting more releases will change the trend. When there is lack of interest, the ammount of releases won't change it, it will rather make it worse (boredom, annoyance, laugh). The mainstream visitors aren't target audience for "oldschool" productions. ...whether you call it nostalgia, retro, vintage or oldschool, it's still considered something "unmarketable" for bigger audience, but...

...the Demobit'95 party had 1000 visitors and all scenes. Demobit 98 kept just c64 scene and the compos were (due to various reasons) a fiasco. The last Demobit (2001) had about 90 visitors and no 8 bits in "portfolio".

Oldschool scenes are small and this weakness is also their strength. Do we *really* need big parties to feel accepted? ;-) Do we *really* need mainstream parties to get stronger? Will they help us to survive? I don't think so.

It might sound a bit exaggerated, but I think that no party can survive without oldschool. It's not the group that assures interest of sponsors, it's not the group that brings the major money in, but that's the one that brings the spirit... the soul, the tradition... and (believe it or not) maturity.

We are around/over 30 and still dig this old crappy machine. What's the chance that we will suddenly drop our interest in it now? How many of people being active, or having roots in "the scene" are coming to major parties? I won't say any numbers, but I'm sure it's not negligible item.

I wonder why I'm only person caring about C64 music compo at major german scene party? ;) Why I'm only person that thinks that C64 music scene is alive and kicking and that there is no problem to organise quality music compo. The problem isn't in the quality of the scene, but in the communication. Dropping the C64 music compo (in 2005) was a clear signal for me that BP orgas don't communicate with contemporary C64 scene and don't respect it.

2007-03-22 11:40

Graham
Account closed

Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990

I don't see the problem. Most (if not all) Oldschool Music releases will be C64 SID tunes anyway, and other oldschool tunes have to be really good to win against SID.

2007-03-22 11:58

Conrad

Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 847

C64 music is IMO the most sophisticated and best of 8-bit chip music. The problem is that many PC sceners nowadays think that 8-bit chip music compos are just blips and blops because of the other 8-bit platforms which have poorer sound chips, which is slowly pushing the c64 music compos out of large demo parties.

I noticed the same situation is happening at the Assembly parties. Because of all this new technology, popular PC demos and the latest nVidia gfx cards, SID music is becoming less interesting, where most young sceners of today (no offence Knoeki btw) think that chip music is "uncool".

Although I am still young myself, I am more comfortable in composing SIDs than XMs and streamed MP3s. There are still a wide range of us sceners who like to compose SIDs and never lose interest as there are still some secrets behind that beloved chip (i.e. I heard Soundemon managed to produce new waveforms out of the chip with NMI routines.)

Yes we all know that the c64 is getting old and becoming less popular, but the passion for SID music be us is still strong as ever, and we can not let this passion fanish as the years go by.

2007-03-22 12:02

Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2968

Indeed. This is the same thing that without this mixed compo, the few entries on other platforms would have no forum, and thus other oldschool scenes would be left out. We still have the strongest 8-bit scene, at least in this part of the world, and so we can easily cope with some competing 8-bit entries ofnother platforms, in the same compo.

Also, C64 and oldschool are getting more and more a synonym and thus interchangeable words, for people not having those roots, just because it all looks blocky and sounds bleepy alike to them.

2007-03-22 12:47

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352

Quote:

Dropping the C64 music compo (in 2005) was a clear signal for me that BP orgas don't communicate with contemporary C64 scene and don't respect it.

infact, i actually think its the other way around. there are much more people in the c64 scene that are completely ignorant (and behave like idiots) towards the pc (and other) scenes than people in the pc scene who do the same towards c64 people. i know what i'm talking about, i was one of them. i was knee deep in said discussion 2005 (and earlier). i had my share of arguments with scamp about this. i also predicted BP to loose all credibility and respect (and visitors) in the oldschool parts of the scene. and i made an idiot out of myself. why?

- when scamp was looking for people from the c64 scene to help with organzing (and that also means dealing with the compos) he couldn't find anyone for a long time. what kinda "signal" is that from the c64 scene? (as a sidenote, the same is even more true for the amiga scene) why should an organizing team which isnt directly related to a certain scene care if that certain scene isnt even willing to help a little bit? oh well, at the end it turned out that bitbreaker and me (and this year some more ppl) joined the organising. you cant really say "they" dont care or respect "us" if "they" choose some of their loudest (and probably most annoying) critics to team up with them and give them the chance to change what they think is wrong, can you?

- the overall quality _and_ amount of releases _is_ decreasing, you can not deny this. and thats one of the strongest (imho valid) arguments. noone, including myself, wants to watch a compo full of crap only to see maybe one nice demo. (or tune, or whatever). imho the mixed music compo did more good than bad here, atleast for me it was interisting to hear some of the other platforms' stuff - and hey, SID tunes won it, so what? =) if your tune doesnt blow away some speccy bleeps, it probably just sucks.

- for a multiplatform party the job of the organisers isnt only to serve every platform with a suitable compo, its also to make compos interisting and enjoyable for _everyone_. and you can't please everyone, no matter how hard you want it. we can not have a seperate compo for speccy, atari, c64 and a dozen other oldschool platforms, simply because time is limited. as for music compo, the choice was between giving some more of the other oldschool platform musicians the chance to compete or to just completely ignore and "disrespect" them - because seperate compos are out of the question.

so while i personally do not agree with some of these decisions, i completely understand them. it is sort of give and take situation. if you want c64 stuff to be an important and significant part of breakpoint in the future, the c64 scene must provide us (the c64 sceners in the organising team) with some good arguments to justify just that. and for the most part that means: quality releases. don't expect "your" compos to be an eternal part of the party, if the majority of the entries are 1985 style "joke" productions.

disclaimer: this has been my personal opinion and not an official statement of breakpoint organising team. kthxbye

2007-03-22 14:06

dalezy

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 476

groepaz, mentioning the obvious is so mid-90s. =)

Quote:

No C64 music compo - no CreaMD.

the bp-orgas better prepare a truckload of tissues

2007-03-22 15:12

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086

No Creamd - no olschool music compo.

2007-03-22 16:25

hollowman

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474

Quote:

I wonder why I'm only person caring about C64 music compo at major german scene party? ;) Why I'm only person that thinks that C64 music scene is alive and kicking and that there is no problem to organise quality music compo. The problem isn't in the quality of the scene, but in the communication. Dropping the C64 music compo (in 2005) was a clear signal for me that BP orgas don't communicate with contemporary C64 scene and don't respect it.

Music compos are mostly interesting for musicians, I usually consider that part of the party schedule as naptime. A good or great 4k by krill and hopefully atleast one decent demo is all I've come to expect from the c64 compos at breakpoint, so the .hu domination last year was a nice surprise, but i dont think that will happen again(please prove me wrong). I think the c64 gets more attention and respect than it deserves considering the quality and originality of the entries.

2007-03-22 16:29

hollowman

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474

Quote:

It might sound a bit exaggerated, but I think that no party can survive without oldschool. It's not the group that assures interest of sponsors, it's not the group that brings the major money in, but that's the one that brings the spirit... the soul, the tradition... and (believe it or not) maturity.

2007-03-22 17:24

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3048

Quote:

"I don't see the problem. Most (if not all) Oldschool Music releases will be C64 SID tunes anyway, and other oldschool tunes have to be really good to win against SID. "

Graham, yeah I think so too, I was agains cancelling of C64 music compo.

Krill, yep I think it's okay to give chance to other plattforms, but I'm not keen on cancelling SID compo and especially not due to reasons that KB has provided when we had that "infamous" clash.

Groepaz. I understand that it's hard to find dedicated organisers and that they aren't obliged to save the plattform just because "we" want it, but as you said you disagree but understand. I disagree and I said why. It was a long discussion and I don't want to repeat myself here. It's not worth it.

Quote:

eases. don't expect "your" compos to be an eternal part of the party, if the majority of the entries are 1985 style "joke" productions

I don't expect anything like that. I demand Demo,Gfx, Music, 4k. compos for C64. Whether there will be brutal preselection and only 5 best tunes will get into the compo. I don't care if they rule-out/kick out fake demos (I would do the same). I don't ask anyone to waste time on saving of the dying scene. (well.. it's dying for so long that it came out of fashion to mention it).

Simply. I'm against removing of C64 music compo at BP. It's not because presence of C64 music compos at BP is crucial for "saving of the movement". It seems that some people got impression that I'm doing all this because I have some special emotional attachments towards this plattform, but If I had something like that I would probably run fluffy site reviewing demos sids and remixes instead of doing a news site about this lazy and ungrateful scene ;-)

Dalezy. Yeah I sometimes have this kind of theatrical gestures. Can't control it ;-)

Quote:

Music compos are mostly interesting for musicians, I usually consider that part of the party schedule as naptime. A good or great 4k by krill and hopefully atleast one decent demo is all I've come to expect from the c64 compos at breakpoint, so the .hu domination last year was a nice surprise, but i dont think that will happen again(please prove me wrong). I think the c64 gets more attention and respect than it deserves considering the quality and originality of the entries

That's a problem of organisation. With good organisation and preselection the music compo (and that doesn't mean just SID compo) can easily be highlight of the party if it has one or two great musics. I've experienced non-musicians talking about C64 compo musics (e.g. at Scenest'97). All that depends on music that gets played. I don't think we sceners have changed that much that music is no longer having any impact on us. Good music is half of the success. That counts for demos too.

Quoting hollowman

Nigga please

I didn't mean you (or even myself) of course.

2007-03-22 17:39

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352

Quote:

I don't expect anything like that. I demand Demo,Gfx, Music, 4k. compos for C64.

... which ofcourse is nonsense to do. what you should demand is ppl releasing c64 demos, c64 music, and c64 gfx. in good amount and quality to justify a compo of their own.

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