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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Some cartridge questions, help wanted.
The recent discussion about the upcoming Super Snapshot-cart reinstated my interest in my own meddling around with C-64 carts. There's pretty good documentation concerning the software parts of these games, but less on how the actual hardware logic works, and the kinds of roms used.
Last spring I did some research myself, and with the help from some friendly folks at #C-64 i've been able to deduct even more. I know this is fringe material, though I realll would appreciate some help with info and/or scans on this matter. What i've deducted so far is:
OCEAN
From what i've seen so far, all of these use a combination of a 74LS273 (Octal D-Type Flip-Flop) and a 74LS02 (2-Input NOR-Function Logic Gate) for the logic. What might be interesting to know is that the 28-pin roms which Ocean uses are identical to the NES-PRG roms, used in NES-carts. Scans of boards and pinouts for the roms are available if anyone is interested.
DOMARK
I haven't disassembled this one myself, Sack/Cosine did. I've been told that it uses a 74LS174 (Hex/Quad D-Type Flip-Flops with Clear) for the logic and that the rom should be a straight forward standard-pin rom.
PROPHET-64
This one uses a 74LS174 (Hex/Quad D-Type Flip-Flops with Clear). It is possible that it even is based on the Domark solution. Can't tell since I haven't seen a scan or photo of a Domark cart. The rom itself is a straight forward AT27C020, 2 mbit eprom.
I would need information about the IC's and/or scan of the internals of the following game cartridges, if available:
* SYSTEM 3 (Any - Myth, Last Ninja Remix, C64GS cart)
* DINAMIC (Any - After the War, Satan, Aspar GP, etc.)
* SILVERROCK (Any - Hugo, Guldkornexpressen, etc.)
* FUNPLAY (Any - Funplay, Powerplay)
* SUPERGAMES (Supergames).
Thanks in advance. |
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Merman
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 140 |
Ocean made their own development system, which was compatible with the GS. A lot of it is based on the Freeload loading system by Paul Hughes, paging in extra data (for example, more types of enemy in the Ocean version of Double Dragon, look-up tables for calculations in Battle Command) |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
I knew Paul Hughes was behind most of the development of the boards and the adaptions to the cart medium. I still haven't asked him about the unreleased cart-game, Plotting.
Whatever the case is, I firmly believe that Paul Hughes had way too much time to spend on the carts. Why? Because i've looked at the boards of 4 different carts, all use different boards wielding the same components. To be honest, you can swap any of the 128k roms between the boards and notice no difference whatsoever. One design for each board were completely unnecessary, yet it was done.
The only board which really differed so far was Chase HQ 2, which don't use an ordinary 28-32 pin dip, but an epoxy covered, minimal, bulb - just like in the DTV or newer NES clones. Must have been really hi-tech back then.
This reminds me - besides the above mentioned carts, i'd also like to have scans of the following:
* Batman, Pang, Toki, Double Dragon (yeah, sure), Spacegun and Robocop III (all 128k games)
* Robocop II, Shadow of the Beast (256k games) |
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Sledge
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 102 |
Twoflower: Is it easy to open those Ocean carts? I don't want to end with a damage cartridge.
I have those carts:
System 3: Myth, Last Ninja Remix and the C64GS cart.
Silverrock: Kalaspuffsexpressen (Swedish version of Guldkornsexpressen)
Funplay: Fun Play, Power Play
Supergames: If it's the one from Commodore
Ocean: Batman, Pang, Toki, Robocop III, Robocop II, Shadow of the Beast.
So if you have some idea to open them saftely, I can take some pictures of them all. Well, I have more carts too, like Cyberball from Domark and some other...
-thomas |
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Sledge
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 102 |
"I firmly believe that Paul Hughes had way too much time to spend on the carts"
Well you seems to have too much time to spend aswell :)
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
Is there a .crt of Kalaspuffsexpressen / Guldkornsexpressen available or is dumping it another task for Sledge? =) |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Well, none of the Silverrock carts seems to have been dumped so far - save for the time when they once were cracked, back in the nineties. I haven't seen any documentation on the bankswitching of these little wonders. Some of the danish fellows (ex. X-Factor, Dominators or perhaps even Mason) should know how. But then we have problem two - a modified C64 is needed, unless Sledge feels like doing some good old hotswapping.
Sledge:
Opening an Ocean-cart is quite easy. A normal star-screw is located under the sticker (which can be carefully de-folded). After the screw is removed, some of the usual umpa-umpa can be applied on the cart. If you feel like concentrating on one or two of the above mentioned, please try the heaviest (!) of either Shadow of the Beast or Robocop II.
I haven't seen a System 3 cart in ages, so I have no idea how to open those. The Supergames should be fitted with a central screw on the backside. Same with the Cyberball cart (which i'm also interested in a scan of). How to open the other ones, i've got no idea of.
Oh, and it seems that it wasn't Paul Hughes having to much time devoted to the 64GS titles. Paulie just made the software modifications and loaders. It was Dave Collier who did all the hardware design. :-) |
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Sledge
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 102 |
Hollowman,
How do make a dump of a cart then? I need some program to do it I guess? I also have one of those cartridge expanders if that will help me without hot swapping?
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Sledge:
You can find most details about cartdumping here. As you see, there is some complications with the game and exrom-lines which usually demand a h/w mod. In theory I believe you might be able to dump it through an MMC64 aswell. The problem is that there is no documentation on how the logic works in the Silverrock carts. Mason? |
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Moloch
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2928 |
Plenty of information about dumping carts here:
http://markus.brenner.de/cartridge/index.html
(Argh, Twoflower beat me to the submit button ;) )
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
When I've dumped cartridges I've used a cartridge port expander. Select an empty slot, switch on c64, load mdump or a machine code monitor from disk, switch in the slot with the cartridge in and dump the content.
But I havent seen any information either about how the silverrock cartridges work but perhaps just some detailed photos of the inside of it can tell? |
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