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2004-08-05 07:54

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086

LCP 2004 demos

What do you think ?

I'm sad, as there were no real coder's demos.

Afrika - we 've seen all these effects 10 years before

Triad,Flt - The design / theme of the demos were not good
enough to excuse for no spectacular codings.

Effluvium - the code was not good enough to excuse no gfx/design/whatever.

are there really no coders out there, that can come up with new stuff ?

... 131 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2004-08-05 15:47

hollowman

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474

macx, you are partly right, but the internal wanking never
ends, no matter how old some people get.
and its not unique for the demoscene,try any culture dominated
by males, for example: hang out with some guitarplayers and you
might end up hearing them ramble about how all the ignorants
arent able to understand why yngwie malmsteen is the best
musician in worldz.

oswald, at lcp you give the demos the point you think they deserve,
you can give all demos a 1 if you think they stink.
still the demos got rather high grades, this must be because
the attenders didnt all have a demo in the top 10 at csdb,
hopefully next year only hcl will vote, since he's the
only one who is able to tell if a demo is good enough.
shame on the rest who think they have the right to
vote however they like

as for what i form my opinion by, well...if the rest
of your lost post was full of such intelligent
and well founded arguments, its a lost gem comparable
in value only to that daffy duck game

yes, the afrika demo had effects done 10 years ago, so does
your demos but neither me nor afrika are stupid enough to
start a thread about how disappointed we are. once again
you are competing in a different league

nightlord, go take a look at what was released at lcp98
and floppy98, and please say again that things are going
the wrong direction. but you are completely right about
the dependancy on the coders, take away a handful of
people and the releases at the swedish parties are gone.
but surely everyone will be really encouraged to continue
now that they know that their demos arent good enough,
and that they should go and make art on pc instead

and i really dont understand why so much is demanded from
the swedish scene, 5 months after floppy.
i am more than pleased with the amount of, and the quality
of the demos(but then i'm not in the top 10 at csdb, and
only judge by the name of the group, so what do i know).
besides, since so many here love technical and groundbreaking
demos, go make some. with all you guys there should be
enough releases to make everyone happy.
and i promise i wont start threads at csdb where i tell
you that your demos wont do, and that you should join
some other scene instead

2004-08-05 15:51

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

Children, children .. it's like _V_ said, it all depends on personal preferences. Personally I 'dig' the more abstract coding style of Borderline more than Cruzer's stuff, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy his workmanship, or that I think he's lame by giving us his old-fashioned coding porn. I think it's cool we see all these different styles next to eachother, and as for LCP not bringing us new effects, too bad, but does that mean the end of the world is near?

Personally I think there's still a lot more that can be done on the 'artsy-fartsy' end of the spectrum, and I see no reason why I'd have to go to the pc scene for such stuff. That's like saying there's no use for a good rocksong in Dutch because there are already so many good ones in English .. not that I can think of a real good rocksong in Dutch but you get my drift.

And you know what's really great? None of us have to watch demos we don't like! Isn't that cool? Believe me, your life would really suck if you had to watch 'Sex and Violence' once a month. So what I'm trying to say here (almost dead because of the 50 degrees heat in my room): just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be made.

Finally Sat, please don't speak for others .. I'm an 'old-school' coder as well, but I doubt we have the same taste.

2004-08-05 16:10

Trash

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122

Quote: Unfortunatly people focus on looks instead of content as always.

Thats why I say if you want looks go for a PC demo.

And tbh I dont think we are even close to utilizing the C64 to its full potential yet, but of cause that remains to be seen.

For the record I havent seen one 4x4 effect that looked nice when viewed on a normal screen yet.

For a coder adding the 'fadein' / 'fadeout' stuff also tend to be laberous boring stuff which in most cases doesnt require talent but just time (which is often what people lack these days).. Yeah I agree it looks nice when its done but I just dont value it as high as the superficial rest does ;)

I completly understand and agree with Cruzer's 'You know the routine' style demoes.. I was impressed when I first saw them, where as the current 'top' demo Deus Ex Machina on this site didnt do the same for me.. It was more like hmm ok, and yeah I know it had some nice code too (dont get me wrong here, the demo is nice, but I have others I find more impressive). I know many 90% wont understand that, but also that the last 10% old school coders will.

Another great thing about 'space-moes' is that you can load the part you would like to see incredible fast :)

If you havn't seen a goodlooking 4x4 effect on a screen yet you obviously missed the bumper in Hammarkullen!

As for the quality of the demos @ lcp I can only say: Be there and make a better release next year. New borders WILL be broken on the C64 and new effects and graphicmodes will brake the surface but it's like always a matter of time and in between at least I do enjoy the concept-demos alot. Neither Puterman, Iopop or Hollowman released bad demos in my eyes, their demos most problably could have competed even with a really cool technical demo and still be likely winners, it is all in the eye of the beholder.

2004-08-05 16:18

iopop

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317

"If you like this demo then just remember it please. If you dislike it, then don't just hang around complaining, just don't look at it anymore"

King Fisher, Red Storm, 92

2004-08-05 17:01

Puterman
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188

Ah, another one of these useful discussions. Others have said it already, but I guess it deserves to be repeated once more: if you're not satisfied with the releases, make something better yourself.

And Oswald: I guess you compensated for your lack of concept skills by coding bumpmappers and tunnels?

2004-08-05 17:02

macx

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 253

this discussion goes in the right direction.

lets make the discussion meta: why cannot both parts be right?

"the swedish demoscene" is more postmodern and VERY pragmatic and tolerant concerning the definition of a good demo.

"the ones opposing the swedish demoscene" are looking for more unsubtle demos pleasing their demand for hard hacking.

in any way both parts have the right to their own opinion. demos ARE ways of expressing oneself, it is art. we want to draw normative conclusions, and we should. such gut-feelings are just proof of that we've got a living scene. or a post-scene if you'd prefer :-)

i might continue this after work.

2004-08-05 18:08

Oxidy
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 80

Macx:
Aaah, you mean we can co-exist? So the "Coder Bandidos" doesn't have to kill the "Artwork Angels" or vice versa?

As Hollowman subliminally tries to say in his demo, we have to clean the streets from these gangs. They make decent people sit and whine in some forum instead of actually producing something.

I'm looking forward to all future demos, regardless if the 50/50 percentage between coding and gfx/design is slightly out of balance. And a small note, the scene will only die of you let it. Duh!

2004-08-05 18:45

Matt

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 598

what a stupid discussion. isn't this a matter of taste? tell me how to discuss taste :/
saying that I don't give a fuck about new routines wouldn't be 100%true but I care a lot more about originality and design, and the music ofcourse. that's what makes a demo special to me.
but that's MY idea, nobody needs to agree.

2004-08-05 21:22

Turtle
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 70

Isn't the amount of opinions posted in very little time proof enough for a vital scene? Is a "scene" only alive and evolving when there are frequently tons of excellent releases? Do demos "communicate" the way people do like in this forum?

2004-08-05 22:45

Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 942

Guess Turtle has a good point, the debate about taste does prove that the scene is quite alive. When I first saw c64 demos after not seeing any for a few years, I was very impressed by the way demos have 'improved', in any way, concept, code, design, graphics, music, swapping thrue sites like these, this stuff is hotter than it ever was...

Good thing about this relative democratic demoscene is the many opinions, many chances of voting some release or person up or down. You can go live in a dictatorial country, and enjoy the benefits of the absolute, if you rather like that. Demos that you don't like, shown on tv, 24/7. Eventually an average demo will become the coolest thing you've seen.

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