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2002-08-25 22:41

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053

Dim cold calculation?!?!?!

Okay.. I have to say something about the thing which really bugs me now. It's a sentence taken from review of Singles Collection. Here we go: "a dim, coldly calculated concept made for the due of things. Sadly enough all too recent as demands for not letting the stream dry up completely".

Dear critic.. Please don't tell us that you know what we feel when we compose, draw and code. Are you really so desperately incompetent that you really believe that people like TMR, Hollowman and others who participated in the project produce things because they desperately want the stream (another stupid catch word from that cathegory where retro & oldskool belongs) to continue?? Oh man, wake up.. nobody needs to do anything. If those people didn't enjoy what they did, they would never do anything. Please don't tell us that creative people do things because they want to keep c64 alive. I don't think anybody who participated on production of the collection did that with this purpose, only you are so incompetent that you dare to present daemagogy as fact. My god, dude those words you said are naiver than any retro bafflegab I've ever read on lemon64.com forums or comp.sys.cbm. And this from person who is actively participating in the C64 scene. Please go spread your incompetent and daemagogical definition of scene productivity somewhere else than in the most prestigious magazine ever produced.

Ah.. by the way.. according to your definition Vandalism News is a cold calcualtion too.. just to keep scene alive? Yeah?. If you believe in your own words, you already consider scene dead. Scene(rs) doesn't think and analyse things just for the sake of thinking and analysing things like you do.. Sorry but scene(r) is not so simple like you try to present to us. If there is just one person who understands the scene(rs), please stand up and say. Yeah, that's me. .... silence... have a nice dream dude.

... 60 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2004-06-09 15:36

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053

Quote: Why should you remove anything? That would be a stupid thing to do. Actually, I was surprised noone else shared your reaction in the first place :)

(but hey, I just got back on the internet and havent really dug in the matter so...)

About Twoflower. His text surely shows that there is a need for discussion, aswell as your "hot-blooded reaction", which was the intention in the first place. Nevertheless, it is a shame that it had to be metaphysical daemagogic crap that started it in the first place.

Good point. I must admit that I had suspicion this being-ever-so-friendly scene was maybe scared of mighty sophisticated wrath of WD, but who knows, maybe they agreed with the article. Maybe the problem is that not much people who actually care about such things had read the article. Sometimes in the second half of the last yer I got idea to put some of the actual Wandalism News articles at c64.sk for wider discussion, but Jazzcat didn't agree with the idea. My idea was to get people talk and react on what was written in WN. It seems to me, that nowadys we just live our lifes and ocassionaly check or release some stuff. The era of fulltime scene-life is long gone for most of us. I wish we at least cared more about what we think or produce, but without communication how can we know how much we actually care. (c64scene.net helps a lot to show that a good release gets some attention, although the names of people who showed their interest or appreaciation usuall repeat.

As far as video you talk about is concerned, I don't know how others but I usually check such production only on parties in wild compos as I don't see any meaning in checking it alone at home. There is still lot of C64 releases which I have never seen or played or listened to.. why should I extend my C64 hobby to c64-related things. I actually listened to quite a few MP3 remixes from remix kwed org lately, as I got them all burned on CD's (thank Wotnau) but that's roughly all I was willing to do as it only needs listening and that can be done while work. I was always quite negative as far as C64-related non-c64 productions were concerned but mostly beacause I didn't think this kind of releases aren't appropriate for c64.sk news.

It's a pity you guys don't feel like doing some bigger C64 production again (sorry if I got your previous post right ;-), as this kind of release would be more appreaciated in C64 circles than any fancy video, but still, I learned to never take this kind of talk for granted. There were so many leavers and returners (even surprising ones) since I stared to follow the scen more closely. It's a long time ago (when my 2 older brothers stopped their creativity on C64) and I reconciled with the scene as it is... 3 years ago I thought I could make bigger impact that I already did, but it seems that it needs even more energy than I already invested. I only achieved that nowadays it's a little bit easier to watch this movement walking towards some unpredictable destination and thanx to c64scene.net produced by Noname guys there also is some sensible alternative to arty-farty general scene art-databse sites. I would love if it was more open and transparent than it is now, but I must admit that it's still much better than anything I would have done, if I ever started. Now only wish I have is that C64 sceners stopped saving, waking up, or cathegorising the scene and talked more about C64 releases and productions themselves. What they gave them, how they feel about them and if they like or dislike them. Whatever is much better putting a group of sceners into a box labelled (for example) retard scene.

Roman

2004-06-09 15:53

_V_
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124

You know, there is something about opinions and people which always seems to get the blood boiling. Wait a minute, that's because opinions tend to differ, and thus emotional responses emerge. What we have in the Vandalism News is an opinion, which is hence biased, and no amount of emotional response or reaction will turn it into something else. Perhaps the author of this comment will revise his opinion in the future, perhaps he won't, but in the end that's his business, not anyone else's.

I understand that this is a discussion forum and hence the author's quote can be discussed and scrutinised, but fact of the matter is that nothing changes and nothing will change as far as that text in that edition of Vandalism News goes. Although this thread has its merits in allowing us to vent some steam, it is meaningless otherwise. Leave it be and return to what really matters...

Opinions? No. They don't really matter.
Demos/graphics/music? Yes. They really matter.

I deplore the loss of a creative team as far as demos and music go. Hey, it happens. Good luck with the magazine and the other projects. It's the very least I can wish.

2004-06-09 16:18

jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578

Quote: Well. Both yes and no in a sense. I thought I was creative enough to finally answer to some of the bollocks (yes! since opinion matters....) written behind my back, that's why I joined this forum in the first place :)

About creativity on a larger scale - That could be a problem since the release by me and Joe (the .avi-files found here! - which by the way noone ever spoke about(?), despite the fact that it's five years of work put together in one piece.... )

We got no inspiration whatsoever nor time for that matter to finish the real demo on the c64. So in a way, I guess that we will continue being creative with the Vandalism News-thingy but will probably never ever contribute anything else to this scene as there are plenty of scenes left to explore - that's: unless we are motivated again to do so...

Well, since the forum is open, nothing was written behind your back - all the more, I think that the discussions are mainly pointed to the public - toward a larger scale. A similar thread was started on C64.sk as well. Personally, I wasn't even seriously involved in this forum room until you've showed up with your first post (although I didn't knew it was you - just suspecting :)...

I do this fucking scening just for the fun of it, and in case I wouldn't enjoy it, I'd just leave the scene. So easy. I absolutely agree that the C64 scene could be a field of creativity and innovation, but personally I was always annoyed by the limits of the C64 which forced my imagination into boundaries. I'm trying to move forward, however. You guys suffer from lack of time, motivation or passion, well same here...

You know what's the problem with .AVIs: huuuuuge files. A lot of us won't download it, thus never see it, and consequently never discuss the work. Honestly, I don't even know what are you writing about. Some kind of a performance? A demo preview?

2004-06-09 18:51

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053

Quote: You know, there is something about opinions and people which always seems to get the blood boiling. Wait a minute, that's because opinions tend to differ, and thus emotional responses emerge. What we have in the Vandalism News is an opinion, which is hence biased, and no amount of emotional response or reaction will turn it into something else. Perhaps the author of this comment will revise his opinion in the future, perhaps he won't, but in the end that's his business, not anyone else's.

I understand that this is a discussion forum and hence the author's quote can be discussed and scrutinised, but fact of the matter is that nothing changes and nothing will change as far as that text in that edition of Vandalism News goes. Although this thread has its merits in allowing us to vent some steam, it is meaningless otherwise. Leave it be and return to what really matters...

Opinions? No. They don't really matter.
Demos/graphics/music? Yes. They really matter.

I deplore the loss of a creative team as far as demos and music go. Hey, it happens. Good luck with the magazine and the other projects. It's the very least I can wish.

Seems like you haven't noticed the little detail that some people have the bad habbit of writting their opinions as facts...

2004-06-11 18:05

_V_
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124

I understand that, and not much can be done about it, but that's human nature. Over the years, you tend to form a certain image of something, and then that image will merge with the facts. However, there are no facts here other than that a review was written in Vandalism News, and as we know, reviews are subjective opinions about something. In how far you wish to believe these opinions is another matter.

Example from another place: If you read any US review on any Resident Evil game, you can be sure that there's a rant on the control scheme in there somewhere. Now personally, I'd like to call these reviewers incompetent a55monkeys who probably use their noses to move the controllers. I've tried discussing it with them, stating the facts about the control system, that it isn't bad at all but requires practise etc etc, but in the end, you can't change a thing.

Their dislike of the control system is just their opinion, and it doesn't really matter - hundreds of thousands of people still buy the Resident Evil games and can work it, despite the 'flawed' control scheme. It was foolish of me to try and argue with them, so after that experience, I just stopped bothering.

Reviews are always subjective things, so it's relative if a statement comes over as 'radical', or 'wrong'. To others, it might be 'conform', or 'right'. Facts have nothing to do there. Besides, purely objective 'reviews' would be quite boring. Isn't it nice to read a review from someone who has a different perspective on things? Although their opinion is irrelevant in principle, it is nice (if the review's bad) to let it affect yourself and get motivated to get better at stuff and kick their collective behinds with the next prod =).

Laatttteeeeee!

2004-06-12 00:52

Crossfire
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221

That's a good point, actually....many people wrongfully tend to read reviews as facts and how "you must feel" about something, but most of these people fail to remember that it is ONE persons conception, not necessarily the whole WORLDS conception....

I learned that a long time ago ;-)

2004-06-12 06:20

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053

Quote: That's a good point, actually....many people wrongfully tend to read reviews as facts and how "you must feel" about something, but most of these people fail to remember that it is ONE persons conception, not necessarily the whole WORLDS conception....

I learned that a long time ago ;-)

Well.. I don't have anything against controversial reviews (e.g. The Dark Judge ones) even when I sometimes don't agree with them. Even last VIP's and yours entry tends to be quite offtopic in all this debate. I'm not against the reviewers opinion about the reviewed product, but I was upset by the reviewers attempt to put the authors of the production into the shelf of "we must save the commodore" actions..

2004-06-12 12:18

_V_
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124

CreamD, my previous entry just answered your thought right before it, so I apologise if it may seem offtopic. However, the fact that the author of that review catalogues sceners into certain shelves is, again, his opinion, and the same arguments and afterthoughts apply.

2004-06-12 14:44

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3053

Quote: CreamD, my previous entry just answered your thought right before it, so I apologise if it may seem offtopic. However, the fact that the author of that review catalogues sceners into certain shelves is, again, his opinion, and the same arguments and afterthoughts apply.

Unfortunately I have to repeate myself again. Seems like you haven't noticed the little detail that some people have the bad habbit of writting their opinions as facts... I thought your post agreed with that premise, now it seems like if we were walking in circles. ;-)

2004-06-13 13:06

Crossfire
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221

Might be off-topic, but then again I don't think so - what I meant was simply that maybe some people write their own opinions as facts, but don't we all have brains in our heads and therefore able to make up our own opinions, you think?

And if some people isn't able to make up their own mind, they thier opinions really matter to you? And if so, WHY?

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