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Forums > CSDb Entries > Event id #3365 : Lovebyte 2024
2023-11-29 00:23
wacek

Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 518
Event id #3365 : Lovebyte 2024

Lovebyte is coming :)

As the C64 is still underrepresented in this sizecoding-dedicated demoparty (a little less last year with my humble efforts ;) ), please consider joining the competitions with your tiny entries :) It would be so awesome to witness more Commodore entries from seasoned, active coders! Our platform really gives a nice challenge when it comes to those tiny intros ;)
 
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2023-12-01 18:26
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 3003
Quoting chatGPZ
Many parties have this though. And very often the compo is cancelled, because of not enough entries. Ppl won't suddenly make more 4k demos(!) because there are more compos for it.
Indeed. And i sure as hell won't waste my next 4K for some online "party", because certainly the effort to produce a worthwhile one isn't "tiny", oh not at all. =)
2023-12-04 09:30
wacek

Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 518
There is no 4k at Lovebyte, I don't get all the negativity but ok, fuck it, this post was pointless I guess.
2023-12-04 09:32
wacek

Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 518
Quoting chatGPZ
Quote:
First we would need 4k to become a standard feature at C64 parties, which we still do not have.
Many parties have this though. And very often the compo is cancelled, because of not enough entries. Ppl won't suddenly make more 4k demos(!) because there are more compos for it.

Many parties? Not really. Recent X was the first X with 4kb AFAIK. The amount of entries shows you that it's not a standard yet. It's a bit of circular logic there ;)
2023-12-04 11:24
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 3003
Quoting wacek
Recent X was the first X with 4kb AFAIK. The amount of entries shows you that it's not a standard yet. It's a bit of circular logic there ;)
X-2018 had a 4K compo as well. 6 entries then and 5 this year is pretty good, though, no?

The classic release venue since at least 1997 have been the big all-demoscene Easter parties, and i see no reason not to release a C-64 4K there these days.

That said, again, 4K is really not tiny (no 4K compos at Lovebyte, as you have noted) and it's already quite well-established in the C-64 scene (CSDb lists more than 500 releases).

Not sure i follow your reasoning for more 4K compos at parties just to pave the way for more tiny-demo (<= 1K) compos? :)

Quoting wacek
There is no 4k at Lovebyte, I don't get all the negativity but ok, fuck it, this post was pointless I guess.
The negativity in my post followed your border-line ad-hominems implying people were lazy and like to discuss semantics rather than produce, while in fact they do produce, just not for the platforms, venues or categories you'd like them to. =)
2023-12-04 12:36
Frostbyte

Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 183
I'd personally love to see tiny compos (1k and less) being introduced to either established parties, or a dedicated C64 sizecoding party. Or both. :) As mentioned, 4k is quite a lot in the right hands, but it'd need to have really killer effects, be multipart etc. to really impress people, which would take a lot of skill and effort to develop, so many would probably just skip 4k and concentrate on making a demo of unrestricted size instead.

Whereas in 1k or less, even just a single clever idea can turn into a very nice compo entry, and perhaps take less time or at least skill to work on, and be more approachable to us somewhat beginners.

As an added bonus, such tiny compo entries don't usually require much showtime, anything from a few seconds to few tens of seconds is usually plenty, so the compos would run quickly, making it easier to fit them to the party schedule.
2023-12-04 14:39
ChristopherJam

Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1412
Quoting wacek
There is no 4k at Lovebyte, I don't get all the negativity but ok, fuck it, this post was pointless I guess.

Nah, I appreciate this post. Thanks for bringing the situation to our attention, there's certainly an underappreciated opportunity for our favourite platform to shine there.
2023-12-04 23:39
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11442
Quote:
Many parties? Not really. Recent X was the first X with 4kb AFAIK. The amount of entries shows you that it's not a standard yet.

X had it before. Breakpoint and Revision (and iirc even Symmek) had it before. The Party had it before. Other smaller parties had it before - but then almost always the separate compo was cancelled and entries merged into the regular compo - which might be why you don't remember it.

And like Krill said, its well established. Its just that most people would rather make an unrestricted demo - for the reasons already mentioned. Making an interesting 4k is hard and takes lots of time and effort. Making an interesting 1k... ah well, its close to impossible hard, imho - i dont remember any :)
2023-12-05 11:41
wacek

Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 518
Quoting Krill
X-2018 had a 4K compo as well. 6 entries then and 5 this year is pretty good, though, no?

So that's 2 compos in 15 editions, 11 entries in 28 years. I stand by my claim 4k is not standard yet. On the other hand, PETSCII in the last 2-3 years have become a de facto standard on most C64 parties.

Quote:
quite well-established in the C-64 scene (CSDb lists more than 500 releases).

CSDb also lists 600 BASIC demos and 2000 PETSCII's. Taking into account how "established" is the first one xD, and that PETSCII is around since just a few years, I would say the numbers do not support the claim.

Quote:
Not sure i follow your reasoning for more 4K compos at parties just to pave the way for more tiny-demo (<= 1K) compos? :)

4k is a gateway to smaller stuff, it was at least for me so the reasoning is personal experience.

Quote:
The negativity in my post followed your border-line ad-hominems implying people were lazy and like to discuss semantics rather than produce, while in fact they do produce, just not for the platforms, venues or categories you'd like them to. =)

There was no ad-hominems, not offensive ones anyway, I never called you lazy and semantics/producing thing is just a simple fact. You replied in the "call for action" thread why there are one million reasons not to do it, maybe I should consider that aggressive and offtopic, but I don't :)

The thread is about C64 (platform), Lovebyte (venue) and tiny intros (category), so I don't care about how active people are on other platforms, venues and categories - that was not the topic, would you agree?

And I think you are taking too many things as personal attacks and becoming too easily triggered, have no idea why but it seems it's a bit your issue, especially in my threads having anything to do with coding. My view, I might be mistaken.

Quoting chatGPZ
X had it before.

See above.

Quote:
Breakpoint and Revision (and iirc even Symmek) had it before. The Party had it before.

Those are multiplatform parties (it's 4k for C64 because there's 4k for all platforms) and yes, there was a moment on the edge of 90's/00's when C64 4k's they became a thing for a moment, and then there was like a 20 years gaping void, when at X2010 my 4k was in the same compo as "Another Beginning" ;)

Quote:
which might be why you don't remember it.

You mean - which is why I remember it... ;)
2023-12-05 14:29
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 3003
Quoting wacek
Quoting Krill
X-2018 had a 4K compo as well. 6 entries then and 5 this year is pretty good, though, no?
So that's 2 compos in 15 editions, 11 entries in 28 years. I stand by my claim 4k is not standard yet. On the other hand, PETSCII in the last 2-3 years have become a de facto standard on most C64 parties.
You cannot count like that. Since X started with 4K (and yes, by 2018, they were late to the party), there have been 5 or more entries per instalment. This is not half-bad any way you look at it.

PETSCII has been a thing since at least the olden BBS days, but only lately as staple compos at parties.

They are easier and faster to produce than worthwhile 4K demos, though.

Quoting wacek
CSDb also lists 600 BASIC demos and 2000 PETSCII's. Taking into account how "established" is the first one xD, and that PETSCII is around since just a few years, I would say the numbers do not support the claim.
See above.

Quoting wacek
You replied in the "call for action" thread why there are one million reasons not to do it
I mentioned but a single reason not to, and that was re: 4K, which isn't a Lovebyte thing.

Quoting wacek
The thread is about C64 (platform), Lovebyte (venue) and tiny intros (category), so I don't care about how active people are on other platforms, venues and categories - that was not the topic, would you agree?
Yes.

Quoting wacek
And I think you are taking too many things as personal attacks and becoming too easily triggered, have no idea why but it seems it's a bit your issue, especially in my threads having anything to do with coding. My view, I might be mistaken.
Feel free to point at those threads in PM, i cannot recall any other instances where you have been involved. Maybe you're mixing me up with someone else.

Quoting wacek
Quote:
Breakpoint and Revision (and iirc even Symmek) had it before. The Party had it before.
Those are multiplatform parties (it's 4k for C64 because there's 4k for all platforms) and yes, there was a moment on the edge of 90's/00's when C64 4k's they became a thing for a moment, and then there was like a 20 years gaping void, when at X2010 my 4k was in the same compo as "Another Beginning" ;)
What gaping void are you talking about? C64 4Ks have been a staple at demo parties throughout. Maybe not at C-64 only parties, but so what?

4K is quite well-suited for platform comparisons, at least a lot better than <= 1K.
And with 4K becoming a staple at C-64 only parties, what will likely happen is not more new C64 4Ks overall, but fewer at individual compos.
2023-12-05 17:10
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11442
Multiplatform parties don't count somehow? OK. What a weird reasoning.
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