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Eyeth
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 98 |
Emu-Fuxx0r
Hello, CSDb denizens-
I would like to bring up this subject, in a constructive fashion, however!
I recently found out that certain demo authors and groups are now using Krill's code to disable their demo offerings under c64 or 128 emulators.
I find this practive to be very shortsighted and in fact, I would vote very negatively on such behavior in CSDb or on any related votesheet.
Why go to all of this trouble in emulator detection and disabling technology. IMHO, the time *wasted* on such efforts are far better spent on NTSC fixing it so that we North American sceners can view your demo releases. (And on the real machines, I might add!) Or just add a NTSC-fixer to your demo crews and share full source code for a proper NTSC fix.
As of now, I am unable, still, to view certain demos due to no NTSC-fix and an emulator is out of the question as they are emufuxx0red! Talk about severely limiting your audience.
An c64 emulator is a brilliant piece of software engineering. The original c64 was truly inspired piece of software/hardware engineering. Are they not equal in deserving consideration and respect? The c64 audience uses both kinds, the emulation and the real thing and all of them share the common c64 computing experience.
Also, emulators are perfect for one thing; they can easily take screenshots of demo screens, even if there's interlacing effects and sprites multiplexed all over. I plan on writing newsletter articles covering the demo scene and try to bring more awareness to the North American scene regarding fine demo offerings and screenshots are invaluable.
I know that demo coders, graphicians, musicians, etc. all work together in creating inspired art on our Commodore 64's. Let's not restrict the audience any necessarily further by implementing emulator detection and shutdown. Allow any Commdore (real or emulated) user worldwide to share in the demo experience in 2002 and onwards. :)
Enjoy.
-Todd Elliott
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quote: TMR, do you know which certain C64 models show the message?
No idea, but it wasn't me who found the problem - i've just seen a few people mention it in other forums before now. Wasn't that what the problem with v1.0 of Emu-Fuxx0r was too...? |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quote: ...Because if you see anything on an emulator, it will look acceptable at best. It's nothing like the real thing, even on the new emulators. (emulators are good for grabbing screenshots, and as a debugging tool, but not to see demos - c'mon people!)
Some people are never going to use a real C64, the ease and availability of emulators is responsible for that. In the same way that the casual viewer won't sit there for ages arsing around with the settings of their PC to run DOS demos, having to set up (or even get hold of) a C64 is a few steps further than a passive audience expects to go.
So we can either say bugger the lot of 'em and write demos that are for real machines and real machines alone (which means specifically going out and blocking emulator use) and the chances of winning new people into the scene goes downhill like a bobsleigh. Or we can be sensible and give the lazier viewers a *taste* of what the C64 can do and we may get a few peoples interest up.
Some of these would-be converts will work in emulators (which is fine, emulators are now close enough to make that possible) but others may buy a real machine - either way new blood is good. |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
MS wrote Windows. Linus created Linux. No one forces people to use them for home use. Get in contact with those who use such tools. I don't think Krill has used it on his own productions. Email the people who use it. Some people have created bad tools in the past or useless tools.
As far as I know only 1 production used it and seems pointless for it to use it. If the emulators were up to the suitable standard, this tool wouldn't make any difference. I guess this keeps Krill's mind interested and occupied. I know I often need a break from certain things as they get boring and lose interest. |
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Six
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 289 |
I have to say that the emufuxxor really kills me. A prime example would be Demus Interruptus. I've always been a HUGE fan of Crossbow's, and would like to see this demo (without having to hack it-that's disrespectful) so much that I actually bought a PAL C64 and paid to have it shipped to the states. Unfortunately, there's no good way to VIEW a PAL C64 in the states, since you also need a PAL monitor. (Talking a few 100 USD to ship that over, and then there's the power problem, that should take me a few years to sort out a solution.)
To put it bluntly, my only recourse right now to see PAL demos properly is to use an emulator, and I'm pretty sad over not being able to check out DemusInterruptus without hacking it, which I won't do out of respect for Crossbow. Catch 22, huh? |
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Black Belt Jones
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 57 |
Six, you sound like a real die-hard follower to have a PAL 64 shipped in, well done man. If its any help to you, I know a TV is no substitute for a monitor but most newer TV's will support many different input frequencies, 50Hz, 60Hz, PAL, NTSC and SECAM. Do you have one that does that? Mind you the input should ideally be composite video into the TV as im not sure if the TV's converting circuitry will work off an RF signal. I use this function not for the 64 but for my sega saturn which then allows me to play japanese NTSC games in proper 50Hz mode. Mind you I am in australia so I run on PAL. See how you go.... |
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Six
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 289 |
The problem is mainly with the color-encoding. I also bought one of those PAL/NTSC to VGA converters, and it's no-go. Disappointment, but a few $$ from now I'll have the PAL monitor to go with my PAL C64. <BIG GRIN HERE> |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Blimey, too many to quote...!
Stryker: i *did* email the author of the one product released that was Emy-Fuxx0red, because i couldn't run it...
Six: "Demus Interruptus" isn't Fuxx0red, run it on the latest version of WinVICE and it works perfectly - Crossbow added that "protection" because the five border sprites over IFLI part doesn't work on older versions of WinVICE CCS 2.0 beta.
Oh, and use a television if you have a 50Hz option - a lot of PAL people use a TV instead of a monitor anyway... =-) |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
TMR:What did the author say? As you may know I had problems with the said person :)
PAL/NTSC 34cm can be bought here in Australia for less than $US150 new. Many VCRs here also enable NTSC playback on PAL tv. I wonder if PAL playback on NTSC exists in USA? |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quote: TMR:What did the author say? As you may know I had problems with the said person :)
PAL/NTSC 34cm can be bought here in Australia for less than $US150 new. Many VCRs here also enable NTSC playback on PAL tv. I wonder if PAL playback on NTSC exists in USA?
Said author is a very staunch believer in "real machine or nothing" with emphasis on *nothing* - he seemed a little upset when i told him i was developing using an emu these days...
(For reference, "Rollover" was written in CCS64 2.0 beta at the back end of 1999 and nobody noticed... =-) |
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: |
Heh, reminds me how Thunderblade was a bit surprised :) when I told all the MW games had been developed completely without testing on the real machine (my reacquiring of working C64 hardware came only later) |
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