[CSDb] - User Forums - Implement http://ftp.pokefinder.org/ into CSDb

Welcome to our latest new user danikAdmiral ! (Registered 2024-12-17)

You are not logged in - nap

CSDb User Forums

Forums > CSDb Feedback > Implement http://ftp.pokefinder.org/ into CSDb

2005-10-25 00:56

Nafcom

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588

Implement http://ftp.pokefinder.org/ into CSDb

Implement http://ftp.pokefinder.org/ into CSDb for alternative download link search!
Opinions?

... 74 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2005-11-02 11:13

Nafcom

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588

Quote: It wasn't meant as an insult, no hard feelings? :)
Anyway, there are lots of people reading this thread, so I just wanted to point out the fact that it is quite often that there is incorrect info in the filenames, or atleast incomplete info. (like only one group, when it was an import and bugfix, etc...)

If I was taking it personal, I wouldn't have written a ':)' behind the sentence.

Yes, sure, just trust me :)

2005-11-02 11:26

tlr

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790

Quote: If I was taking it personal, I wouldn't have written a ':)' behind the sentence.

Yes, sure, just trust me :)

I have to, you are a moderator! ;)
No, seriously, I do.
I just want to raise the general awareness about entering correct info.
Anyhow, I think the pokefinder.org-link is quite useful aswell.

2005-11-02 11:52

Nafcom

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588

Quote: I have to, you are a moderator! ;)
No, seriously, I do.
I just want to raise the general awareness about entering correct info.
Anyhow, I think the pokefinder.org-link is quite useful aswell.

*speechless* :)

2005-11-02 16:07

Seven

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202

Quote: Is this pokefinder link really a good idea?

It doesn't give unique results, like download-links does.
So it's likely you won't get the release you were looking at in CSDb.

Wouldn't it perhaps encourage people to not upload files?

Also, if there is a release without a download-link and someone finds the file (f.e. at pokefinder), shouldn't he upload it at the release page, so that other people later will get the right (unique) file? If so, i guess the pokefinder-link not really needed (maybe it could be nice to have at the edit page, but not on the main release-page)

My $.05:

$.01) Is it really a good idea to make CSDb the sole resource for C64 files?

My opinion: No. While I appreciate the value this database has, it is no secret that it had its downtime in the past and sure will have some more in the future. That being said I think it's quite dangerous to limit file uploads to this database and forget about the FTP sites that served our purposes well in all these years.

$.02) Is it really a good idea to upload cracks to this database?

My opinion: No. While supplying download links of cracks is a semi-legal thing that, depending on your country, might get you into trouble or not, hosting the files definately IS illegal. And I wouldn't want to see Perff and others being sued and this fine database put offline for that reason.

$.03) Is it a problem that http://ftp.pokefinder.org doesn't supply unique results?

My opinion: Not necessarily. While you might not be able to find Bomb Mania/ONS, you might do just fine with Bomb Mania/SCS*TRC, even though Bomb Mania/SCS*TRC might not be listed on CSDb (yet).

$.04) Would it encourage people to not upload files (to CSDb)?

My opinion: Maybe so, but because of reasons given above I don't necessarily see that as a problem. However, maybe it'd encourage some people to upload to the FTP sites instead. Mass upload to FTP sites is much more convenient than uploading file by file to a webpage anyway.

$.05) Should people use http://ftp.pokefinder.org to find the file, download it and then upload it to CSDb?

http://ftp.pokefinder.org was created to supply a decent way to search multiple FTP sites for a file - if one FTP site doesn't have it, another might. If one FTP site is down, another might not. In the days of point'n'click web-users, http://ftp.pokefinder.org tries to be a convenient web interface for FTP - servers that're available for exactly that: downloading (and uploading) files. It wasn't Count Zero's intention to create a tool to help cannibalize the FTP sites and make them obsolete.

2005-11-02 16:50

tlr

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790

@seven: Maybe there should be a way to mirror csdb? The biggest point of csdb is that there is meta-information about who did what. This will be mostly lost with ftp-only archives. It's ofcourse the meta-info that makes it more work to upload here, but I think it is worth it.

As for the cracks I agree to some extent. The downloads can always be quickly disabled though, they are all flagged as "C64 crack" in the database.

I don't agree with the different releases of cracks being equivalent. As for history, the text in intro scrollers, ratings, etc... is very interresting. If the cracks weren't allowed in here, this could possibly be solved by ripping the intros, or just the whole scroll-text. But that's even more work.

I agree that it would be good to have the stuff on ftp aswell, but couldn't that be taken care of by a partial dump of files from csdb?

Just some thoughts...

2005-11-02 17:24

Seven

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202

Quote: @seven: Maybe there should be a way to mirror csdb? The biggest point of csdb is that there is meta-information about who did what. This will be mostly lost with ftp-only archives. It's ofcourse the meta-info that makes it more work to upload here, but I think it is worth it.

As for the cracks I agree to some extent. The downloads can always be quickly disabled though, they are all flagged as "C64 crack" in the database.

I don't agree with the different releases of cracks being equivalent. As for history, the text in intro scrollers, ratings, etc... is very interresting. If the cracks weren't allowed in here, this could possibly be solved by ripping the intros, or just the whole scroll-text. But that's even more work.

I agree that it would be good to have the stuff on ftp aswell, but couldn't that be taken care of by a partial dump of files from csdb?

Just some thoughts...

Mirroring CSDb is a tricky thing...
CSDb runs on PostgreSQL, and while PostgreSQL allows master/slave replication it severely limits options of mirrors since most webhosters nowadays will only give you MySQL. With MySQL 5 replication would become a possibilty aswell, but it still leaves us with "just a copy" of the database and in a case of downtime we'd end up with a read-only database.
...unless you want to set up chained replication, but I have to admit that I have my doubts if that'd be advisable over the "public" internet.
A mirror also makes changes to the programming more difficult and opens new doors for abuse (you might recall the MacGyver discussion). Guys supplying a mirror would have to be _really_ reliable.

True, downloads for cracks could quickly be disabled. But then? They wouldn't be available anymore when people just upload to CSDb instead of uploading to the FTP sites... where's the point in that? It stays a fact.. mass-dowloading from an FTP site is way more convenient (and FTP sites are a lot more "mirror-able") than webpage downloads.

As for exchangeability of cracks.. I do realize that if what you were looking for was the intro-scrolltext in the SCS*TRC version of Bomb Mania the Onslaught version won't cut it, but if you want crack comparisons, Mason's project (once he's finished) will be much more suitable for that.

But then again... LOOK, according to CSDb there IS no SCS*TRC version of Bomb Mania... in fact, there is no cracked version at all... wonder how THAT happened *smirks*

2005-11-02 17:33

tlr

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790

I think it would be a good first step if there was read only mirroring of csdb. I understand that read/write access from multiple sites is complex, both technically and securitywise.

I also agree that it is easier to download lots of stuff from ftp servers, and probably many people want to do this. But I also believe that there is quite a large crowd interrested in the scene history. For the latter use it's primarily the meta-information that is interresting, and here csdb is invaluable!
If the files of csdb where exported using an automated naming scheme (<group>_-_<release>.zip for example), we could have the best of both worlds.

2005-11-02 18:56

CyberBrain
Administrator

Posts: 392

Quoting Seven

$.03) Is it a problem that http://ftp.pokefinder.org doesn't supply unique results?

My opinion: Not necessarily. While you might not be able to find Bomb Mania/ONS, you might do just fine with Bomb Mania/SCS*TRC, even though Bomb Mania/SCS*TRC might not be listed on CSDb (yet).

$.04) Would it encourage people to not upload files (to CSDb)?

My opinion: Maybe so, but because of reasons given above I don't necessarily see that as a problem. However, maybe it'd encourage some people to upload to the FTP sites instead. Mass upload to FTP sites is much more convenient than uploading file by file to a webpage anyway.

$.05) Should people use http://ftp.pokefinder.org to find the file, download it and then upload it to CSDb?

http://ftp.pokefinder.org was created to supply a decent way to search multiple FTP sites for a file -
if one FTP site doesn't have it, another might. If one FTP site is down, another might not. In the days
of point'n'click web-users, http://ftp.pokefinder.org tries to be a convenient web interface for FTP -
servers that're available for exactly that: downloading (and uploading) files. It wasn't Count Zero's
intention to create a tool to help cannibalize the FTP sites and make them obsolete.

If you were referring to my post here, my point wasn't that CSDb should make FTP-sites obsolete, or people should stop using pokefinder. You can still use pokefinder even if there isn't a link to it from CSDb on the bottom of each release-page, and as you guys pointed out, FTP-sites are useful in another way than CSDb is.

My point is that if there is a release (in CSDb) without download-link, you use the pokefinder-link to search for the file and you actually find the correct file, you should add a download-link (or upload it - doesn't matter) so other people later can get the right file. So the pokefinder-link is only useful for the first person who clicks it, as he "should" add a download-link to the correct file.

What i'm saying is just that i'm not sure that the pokefinder-thing really fits into CSDb's framework.
I'm not saying that pokefinder is useless or something like that.

But if people like it, i guess it's fine :)

2005-11-02 19:13

Nafcom

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588

Quote: Quoting Seven

$.03) Is it a problem that http://ftp.pokefinder.org doesn't supply unique results?

My opinion: Not necessarily. While you might not be able to find Bomb Mania/ONS, you might do just fine with Bomb Mania/SCS*TRC, even though Bomb Mania/SCS*TRC might not be listed on CSDb (yet).

$.04) Would it encourage people to not upload files (to CSDb)?

My opinion: Maybe so, but because of reasons given above I don't necessarily see that as a problem. However, maybe it'd encourage some people to upload to the FTP sites instead. Mass upload to FTP sites is much more convenient than uploading file by file to a webpage anyway.

$.05) Should people use http://ftp.pokefinder.org to find the file, download it and then upload it to CSDb?

http://ftp.pokefinder.org was created to supply a decent way to search multiple FTP sites for a file -
if one FTP site doesn't have it, another might. If one FTP site is down, another might not. In the days
of point'n'click web-users, http://ftp.pokefinder.org tries to be a convenient web interface for FTP -
servers that're available for exactly that: downloading (and uploading) files. It wasn't Count Zero's
intention to create a tool to help cannibalize the FTP sites and make them obsolete.

If you were referring to my post here, my point wasn't that CSDb should make FTP-sites obsolete, or people should stop using pokefinder. You can still use pokefinder even if there isn't a link to it from CSDb on the bottom of each release-page, and as you guys pointed out, FTP-sites are useful in another way than CSDb is.

My point is that if there is a release (in CSDb) without download-link, you use the pokefinder-link to search for the file and you actually find the correct file, you should add a download-link (or upload it - doesn't matter) so other people later can get the right file. So the pokefinder-link is only useful for the first person who clicks it, as he "should" add a download-link to the correct file.

What i'm saying is just that i'm not sure that the pokefinder-thing really fits into CSDb's framework.
I'm not saying that pokefinder is useless or something like that.

But if people like it, i guess it's fine :)

I think it's matter wether to add a link or upload it.
Uploading it will be sure it's there and not lost, like a lot of releases that only got linked often result into a broken download link! :(

That is why I always do both, adding link and uploading the file :)

2005-11-02 19:28

Seven

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202

@tlr:

I'm all with you about the meta information and I agree that FTP servers are simply not the right platform for those, but they ARE the ideal platform for files and CSDb is not.

Yes, in theory exporting all the files with a halfway decent naming scheme would be a possibility, however, different FTP sites have different naming conventions for their files, and there's alway some kind user (read: admin) interaction required for moving the files to the proper directories.

I guess someone'd have to talk with an FTP admin or two to find out if they're interested or not.

... it'd still leave us with CSDb's "censorship" though ;)

@cyberbrain:

I just don't see people actually looking for every single file to add the download link when most can't even be hassled to upload the file to an FTP site. In a way CSDb is doing exactly that, trying to make FTP sites obsolete by providing a fool-proof upload feature, and in doing so actually somewhat increasing the danger of stuff eventually getting lost by concentrating everything in one place.

In the beginning CSDb was content using links only and all was fine, FTP admins made sure files were properly named and had the correct format (zipped d64, or - back in the day - gzipped prg or lnx/z64). Now, on CSDb, we have files named V2.d64 (anyone wanna guess what that unpacked disk image actually contains?) - and entries that 'forcefully' have their download links removed or are removed entirely.

Noone is forced to use http://ftp.pokefinder.org , if you want, remove it again, I just think it should be up to the user whether he'd like an alternative to the supplied (or in most cases: not supplied) download links on CSDb - with the positive side effect that some newbies might actually discover FTP when most people nowadays think that the World Wide Wait, Email and AOL is all there is to the internet.

Previous - 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 - Next

Refresh

Subscribe to this thread:

You need to be logged in to post in the forum.

Search the forum:
Search for in
All times are CET.

Search CSDb

Advanced

Users Online

Bacchus/FairLight
E$G/HF ⭐ 7
chesser/Blazon
tempest/extend
Twoflower/ΤRIΛD
Medicus
Higgie/Kraze/Slackers
zenda
duce/extend
Knut Clausen/SHAPE/F..
iAN CooG/HVSC
TheRealWanderer
radius75
katon/Lepsi De
DeMOSic/MS^LSD^ONS
t0m3000/hf^boom!^ibx
Didi/Laxity
pcollins/Quantum
Guests online: 110

Top Demos

1 Next Level  (9.7)
2 13:37  (9.7)
3 Mojo  (9.6)
4 Coma Light 13  (9.6)
5 Edge of Disgrace  (9.6)
6 What Is The Matrix 2  (9.6)
7 The Demo Coder  (9.6)
8 Uncensored  (9.6)
9 Comaland 100%  (9.6)
10 Wonderland XIV  (9.6)

Top onefile Demos

1 Layers  (9.6)
2 No Listen  (9.6)
3 Party Elk 2  (9.6)
4 Cubic Dream  (9.6)
5 Copper Booze  (9.6)
6 Rainbow Connection  (9.5)
7 Dawnfall V1.1  (9.5)
8 Onscreen 5k  (9.5)
9 Morph  (9.5)
10 Libertongo  (9.5)

Top Groups

1 Performers  (9.3)
2 Booze Design  (9.3)
3 Oxyron  (9.3)
4 Triad  (9.3)
5 Censor Design  (9.3)

Top Swappers

1 Derbyshire Ram  (10)
2 Jerry  (9.8)
3 Violator  (9.7)
4 Acidchild  (9.7)
5 Cash  (9.6)

Page generated in: 0.046 sec.