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angelo
Registered: Jul 2024
Posts: 13 |
Howdy
Hi there. It's my first post here, so lemme introduce myself. I'm angelo, or æn.d͡ʒə.loʊ, or unj, a founder of KSKPD, the group behind polish unesco application.
I'm in process of researching some early-computing stuff, including an idea planted by @Krill and @bitfat, that the default narrative of "In the beginning it was a cracker scene, that developed into demoscene later because $REASONS" might be worth challenging.
I might be asking in various sub-forums questions around data on this site, but while I used to be a part of demoscene as a coder (1995+), I also owned PC exclusively since my first computer in like 1990. I skipped 8bit phase completely, so please bare with me, if the questions sound obvious or straight-up outrageously naive :) |
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Mixer
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 452 |
A philosopher was walking a path in front of him. The terrain was difficult, forest was thick, and he dodged tree roots and rocks, saw the flowers and birds and beings hidden in the trees and felt the rain and wind. Exhausted he got to the other side, and there was a monk who asked: "Where do you come from? The true path comes from there, pointing to a paved road. There is no path were you came from." Philosopher answered: "There is now." |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
Quote: Quote:It is very common that common knowledge is incorrect.
I can say “true” to that. I may also add that it’s very common that common knowledge is correct.
My point is, it (common knowledge) cannot be upturned by half dozen personal opinions. Unless they are THE ONLY opinions that is…
there is no factual proofm and you yourself cant present fractual proofs for your views.
what you label common knowledge is not proven.
cracking games needs much less effort than doing something creative, also cracking comes naturally ppl just wanting games for feee, so its natural cracking happened earlier.
demos needs much more effort and investment, so it came later.
however if A happens earlier in time than B that doesnt mean that B originates from A. |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
Quote:Swapping was around before the copy protections.
You mean there was an international network of C64 swappers before copying and distribution of games and other commercial software became a thing? I was completely unaware of this. Who were these swappers? What did they swap? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
They swapped the software they wrote, as simple as that. And it was pretty much what everyone who owned a computer in the 70 and early 80s did. The concept of "copyright" was invented later. Or even the concept of buying it for that matter :) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2980 |
Quoting chatGPZThey swapped the software they wrote, as simple as that. And it was pretty much what everyone who owned a computer in the 70 and early 80s did. The concept of "copyright" was invented later. Or even the concept of buying it for that matter :) Plus the wording was "before the copy protections", so unprotected games and other commercial software were also very likely swapped along. =) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Yes, and it was considered "normal" for everyone too - until some businessmen came up with the "copyright" idea |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
@Oswald
Do you understand anything about social science and historical research?
Here, let me try and explain: if something is written in a research paper (which quotes a dozen books at the end), if half a dozen later papers quote this research paper, and even if the Wiki entry bases its definition of a cultural phenomenon based on this paper, then this definition is not “my opinion”. A lot of what historians write will have no “f(r)actual proofs” whatever you mean by that, but I’m guessing you mean “material proof” or something. What they write will be based on circumstantial and anecdotal evidence, it will basically be their informed opinion. That’s how these sciences work. Of course their methodology could be imperfect, their data pool could be too small, which could lead them to wrong conclusions. But if this is the only research available then their informed opinion and your personal opinion don’t carry the same weight. Is that too hard to grasp? |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
Quote:They swapped the software they wrote, as simple as that. And it was pretty much what everyone who owned a computer in the 70 and early 80s did. The concept of "copyright" was invented later. Or even the concept of buying it for that matter :)
Reading this, I think I perhaps see where the misunderstanding lies. For some reason when talking about the emergence of the demoscene, I thought we were talking about this subculture that arose in teenage computer user circles in mid 80s mainly on C64. Continued on Amiga, ST and others. Reagan times. When it was already well defined that software (read games) had to be bought. I never included 70s, Altairs and whatnot into this subculture. Of that earlier subculture I always thought of as “hackerscene”. The attitudes always seemed very different to me. Those computer nerds in the 70s were old optimistic, altruistic boomer guys with beards. Demosceners, on the other hand, were not boomers, they were gen-x-ers and they were not at all altruistic, but rude brats. Correct me if I got it wrong, but You seem to want to move the beginning of the demoscene further into history from where I put it. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
do you understand how all of science works?
there is proof - accept it.
no proof - discard it.
dont push your unproven opinion. |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
@Oswald
I admit, your proud ignorance annoys the cr*p out of me. |
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