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2007-03-24 19:01

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094

Release id #47904 : Joe Gunn Preview

Now what was the fucking idea with releasing this? Showing your packer using, cruncher and introlinking skills? Triad was the name for quality for me. Now Triad equals a bunch of fucking lamers not being able to do anything but put intros in front of non protected games, games that are not even finished, games that are made for fun, and for free. You didnt even needed a first supplier, just downloaded it added an intro... for what fucking reason?

Stop being lame and releasing shite under the triad label.

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2007-03-25 21:49

Jazzcat

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044

Obviously there is true signs of generational-gap and lack of traditional-projection.

In the past previews weren't so easily advertised. In some cases they were just disks sent to the companies; "are you interested in buying my game?" or were presented on the front cover of ZZAP64 (tape).

Previews have ALWAYS been released.

Nowadays there is several reasons to continue releasing, maybe some fail to understand?

Tradition - upholding the ways of the old days, afterall, the scene is suspended in a state of oldschool. Why should we change? Especially for a bunch of whining newbies?

Preservation - often the games and game previews released (especially in the case of my own group as well as Triad) are to not to be found anywhere except on one disk. Rather than letting it rot, we bring you the remains, remains that you always easily pass judgement on (f.e. Liverpool FC Preview/ONS).

PR - yes! In some cases these intro-linked or improved (!) versions of the previews (and games!) are a form of PR! The release is spread and so is the work of the original coder. Of course some argue they wish to play the original, this is no problem, obtain the original and your dream will come true!

The entries of both Oswald, CreamD (and a chat with FMan on IRC #c-64) enforce the reason why I produce the RECOLLECTION magazine. In the hope to bridge the gaps that people in the scene face (legal AND illegal). I think many people have these weird perceptions of how things went on and how the groups were organised. Where did they really get their game-originals? Who had to skip school to crack a first release? What were their plans - and how well planned were they? How did they meet and get together in the first place? What triggered all the fighting? What split groups up? How were demos made and what inspired them? What was the lamest thing the coolest persons ever did? There is room for so many unmasking, entertaining stories that can now be told that the old era is over.

There is a need for information. Some people appear to be lost about the past, confused, or even being totally ignorant about it. As in, how things worked back then, how it all came to be, the 'unwritten rules' etc.

Perhaps those struggling to understand should put some effort into seeking enlightenment. Perhaps if they achieve this goal their pain will lesson.

2007-03-25 22:11

Fungus

Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 686

Meh. Jazzcat is right... first off, there WOULD BE NO DEMO SCENE WITHOUT THE CRACKING SCENE. This all started with INTRO's.(Demo's being made by people like Ratt&Ben).

You seem to be confusing the "scene" with the embodyment of people who were NOT the scene, much like the people who frequent these web boards and old places like q-link etc...

Previews were ALWAYS released, sometimes many of one game. However they didn't get spread around that much because they were not complete games.

What is being released now, are things which have NEVER seen the light of day, except by the actual developers most times... ALOT of work goes into digging up some of these things and negotiating with the authors. GTW simply put, rocks.

How can you criticize something you lack understanding of? That seems rather pointless, and nothing but expressing your own views and disregarding the history and rules (both spoken and unspoken).

The point now is to preserve history, your fooling yourselves totally thinking your creating any more history with your bazlillions of demos of which a couple of hundred people on the entire planet watch anymore. (hello it is 2007!) Nothing you do is groundbreaking at all, you all copy each other and try to improve already done things... how boring! Even the PC demo scene is dead.

Thousands of retro gamers however, still play and look for games. People who have absolutely no involvement what-so-ever in the scene. These people still enjoy to see games they haven't played before. The Retro Game movement is HUGE business. The Retro demo scene, is fading away on all platforms...

Distinct lack of creativity, any new idea's thrown at DEMO coders are disregarded without even a thought to them. So to me, you all seem the most closed minded group of individuals still functioning on this platform. Your also more elitist than any Illegal scener. Your standards and how you treat newbies is laughable...

meh, grow up.

2007-03-25 22:19

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057

Why do you think it's important for 31 years old to >learn< from what other people were doing when they were in their teenage years? Especially when it concerns the activities he has never had chance to be involved with. Maybe it sounds cold and unempathic, but instead of trying to "teach us" to respect the concepts that were invented by teenagers you should maybe try to present the concepts that are acceptable for 31 years old adult. Or not try.

I'm don't reject the past of C64 scene and I'm not against anything that "we" were doing when we were young. But I'm too old and most importantly lacking any emotional attachment towards pre 92, c64 scene activities. I can't help it, I wasn't part of that scene because of political and social reason. You can call us (post-communist countries sceners) newbies but that won't change our views.

Tolerate it, that's the only thing I can do.

2007-03-25 22:30

Moloch

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2928

*plop*

2007-03-25 22:41

d0c

Registered: Apr 2006
Posts: 186

okay, i was only trying to get people intressting in cracking the portal game, i hope i not upset anyone becouse of this. sorry if i have done that... i know maybe i should have started my own thread instead of posting in this figth, anyway done is done.... here i am and i am still wondering if there is any tough cracker out there that can get the job done..

2007-03-25 22:45

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057

Quote: Meh. Jazzcat is right... first off, there WOULD BE NO DEMO SCENE WITHOUT THE CRACKING SCENE. This all started with INTRO's.(Demo's being made by people like Ratt&Ben).

You seem to be confusing the "scene" with the embodyment of people who were NOT the scene, much like the people who frequent these web boards and old places like q-link etc...

Previews were ALWAYS released, sometimes many of one game. However they didn't get spread around that much because they were not complete games.

What is being released now, are things which have NEVER seen the light of day, except by the actual developers most times... ALOT of work goes into digging up some of these things and negotiating with the authors. GTW simply put, rocks.

How can you criticize something you lack understanding of? That seems rather pointless, and nothing but expressing your own views and disregarding the history and rules (both spoken and unspoken).

The point now is to preserve history, your fooling yourselves totally thinking your creating any more history with your bazlillions of demos of which a couple of hundred people on the entire planet watch anymore. (hello it is 2007!) Nothing you do is groundbreaking at all, you all copy each other and try to improve already done things... how boring! Even the PC demo scene is dead.

Thousands of retro gamers however, still play and look for games. People who have absolutely no involvement what-so-ever in the scene. These people still enjoy to see games they haven't played before. The Retro Game movement is HUGE business. The Retro demo scene, is fading away on all platforms...

Distinct lack of creativity, any new idea's thrown at DEMO coders are disregarded without even a thought to them. So to me, you all seem the most closed minded group of individuals still functioning on this platform. Your also more elitist than any Illegal scener. Your standards and how you treat newbies is laughable...

meh, grow up.

Wow, what a nutrient material for a quarrelsome part of me. ;-) Just very few notes (I more or less accept or tolerate the rest of your views)
Quote:

GTW simply put, rocks.

Agree 100%. Jazzcat and Frank Gasking are doing the great work.

Quote:

The point now is to preserve history, your fooling yourselves totally thinking your creating any more history with your bazlillions of demos of which a couple of hundred people on the entire planet watch anymore. (hello it is 2007!) Nothing you do is groundbreaking at all, you all copy each other and try to improve already done things... how boring! Even the PC demo scene is dead.

I don't find anything insulting on that except of the fact that you would be able to suppose that that my (or Oswald's) thinking could be that naive ;-) What you say is actually pretty accurate description of today's reality.
Quote:

The Retro demo scene

I've never heard about that. I don't think there is something like "retro-demo-scene" ... yet. If there was, I would be first to know. And as for scene fading away on all plattforms. How many times I have to repeat that news about scene being dead are so old that they were out of fashion already in last century.
Quote:

So to me, you all seem the most closed minded group of individuals still functioning on this platform.

Very funny. What exactly is so open minded on traditional conservative cracking scene concepts? I fail to see your point really.
Quote:

Your also more elitist than any Illegal scener. Your standards and how you treat newbies is laughable...

Yes I must admit, from a certain point of view I'm an elitist. What standards? Enlighten me, please.
Quote:

meh, grow up.

Being 31 years I should start to believe in fairy tales about cracking scene supporting unexisting C64 gaming industry by exposing games to more people? ;-)) Or what do you mean? ;-)))))

2007-03-25 22:49

d0c

Registered: Apr 2006
Posts: 186

now we have still one game that exist and are still uncracked, that can be exposed ;)

2007-03-25 22:54

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057

Quote: now we have still one game that exist and are still uncracked, that can be exposed ;)

That's called oldie cracking. Oswald didn't criticise that.

2007-03-25 23:16

Fungus

Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 686

d0c: portal? I noticed some mention of this... is this the one with KDOS? or was that F-14... anyways, this is KEYDOS by activision. If anyone want some help on it, it is not so hard to do... (I am retired so don't ask me to do it! however I'd be glad to help.)

and there is quite a couple hundred or more USA games never done right...

CreaMD: the fact you think the scene was founded by teenagers states your ignorance on the subject more than anything I could retort with. :D

retro demo... well since your coding on a machine from 1984 in 2007... I'd say that fits the bill.

Closed minded, your elitist attitude and the fact you claim so, is quite close minded... Elite is as Elite does! (Here in print is an unspoken rule for u ;)

Moloch: *FLUSH*

2007-03-25 23:48

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057

Quote: d0c: portal? I noticed some mention of this... is this the one with KDOS? or was that F-14... anyways, this is KEYDOS by activision. If anyone want some help on it, it is not so hard to do... (I am retired so don't ask me to do it! however I'd be glad to help.)

and there is quite a couple hundred or more USA games never done right...

CreaMD: the fact you think the scene was founded by teenagers states your ignorance on the subject more than anything I could retort with. :D

retro demo... well since your coding on a machine from 1984 in 2007... I'd say that fits the bill.

Closed minded, your elitist attitude and the fact you claim so, is quite close minded... Elite is as Elite does! (Here in print is an unspoken rule for u ;)

Moloch: *FLUSH*

Quote:

CreaMD: the fact you think the scene was founded by teenagers states your ignorance on the subject more than anything I could retort with. :D

I expected that someone will point out that there were adults involved in the cracking scene too, and still, I didn't rephrase it because I don't think that it really matters. I wanted to point out that as someone who wasn't involved in cracking scene while I was young, I didn't grow emotional attachment towards it and I don't find rational to try now in my 31 yrs.

Quote:

retro demo... well since your coding on a machine from 1984 in 2007... I'd say that fits the bill.

You are free to have your opinion on that, but officially there is no retro-demo-scene. Especially not in C64 scene where some old sceners never left the scene completely. There might be retro-demo-scene for e.g. Vic-20 as this machine seemed abandoned for years and now there are new demos appearing.

Quote:

Closed minded, your elitist attitude and the fact you claim so, is quite close minded... Elite is as Elite does! (Here in print is an unspoken rule for u ;)

I don't claim anything. I just admitted that (from certain point of view... etc.). Anyway, why do you think that you will get away with pointing out of non-essential things in what I said and ignoring my questions? ;-) I don't think you will persuade anyone this way, and certainly not me.