| | Adam The Axe
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 6 |
The Scene as it was.
I was in The Scene, therefore, I know what went on in the C64 scene. I see TOP GROUPS listed over there on the side display and I see DD listed #2, okay, I can buy alittle of that, Robin was a good dude, but there was only 1 number UNO in all of the C64 scene... and as much as I hate to admit, it was ESI, ONLY. Far and away, this group did more for C64 than any group, ever. Fairlight and Red Sector were a close second but not even close to Eaglesoft. |
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| | CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3052 |
As Hein said. The scene is 25 years. Old groups, crackers, coders, deserve respect for being pioneers in cracking, democoding, phreaking (whatever reason we come up with), but charts are about competition. If they aren't competing today, might not get into today's charts. If there were some alltime charts then there could be alltime best gruops.
Everybody agrees that Ellvis is the king. But not everyobdy is listening to his music. There are many other kings.. like Michael Jackson, James Brown, Beatles, Luis Armstrong... U2.. .. etc.. but that doesn't assure them automatic position in pop-music-charts..
roman |
| | Wisdom
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 90 |
Ok, back to the original post's scope, I agree with Nightlord there that it is not quite relevant to discuss Top Groups in this manner, unless there are separate charts such as Top Demo Groups and Top Cracking Groups, as was the way with the diskmags.
Otherwise, the topic is just floating to random points.
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| | TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Ok, back to the original post's scope, I agree with Nightlord there that it is not quite relevant to discuss Top Groups in this manner, unless there are separate charts such as Top Demo Groups and Top Cracking Groups, as was the way with the diskmags.
Otherwise, the topic is just floating to random points.
Top cracking groups:
http://noname.c64.org/csdb/toplist.php?type=group&subtype=%282%..
Top demogroups:
http://noname.c64.org/csdb/toplist.php?type=group&subtype=%281%..
Also, I think an overall chart does have its merits. It's all about what groups made the best impression on the sceners, dependless of their specialty. |
| | Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
thanks for that link TDJ.
But to me it just shows what I already thought..
the CSDB votes represent very little.
for example Commando Frontier on place 4 with only 6 people having voted on them whilst Crazy on place 71, or RSI on 73 or NEI on 79, Exodus on 80.. etc. just to mention a few.
It has very little to do with the impact a group made and everything to do with the way, or better said how little people actually vote on csdb.
Lets say 100 people where asked to vote on all the groups in this list, I am sure it would look very, very different.
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| | Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
What about a Pouet-like view on the current votes? 10-6 = thumb up, 5-3 = piggy, 2-1 = thumb down. (Assuming that IF somebody votes he is atleast liking the production enough to vote for it) |
| | TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Or you could just take the high marks (8-10) in consideration and forget about the rest :) |
| | Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
I actually just took the time to vote on a large heap of groups in the cracking charts and noticed something else which makes these charts very poor.. selfvoting of current of ex-members.
sigh
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| | Adam The Axe
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 6 |
First of all, I am from way back, anything after 1988 I know nothing about, the C64 game scene was dying, the Amiga was rolling and the FBI was popping people left and right for phone violations. I started in 1983, just after my Vic20 died.
I was in several groups, phreaking mostly, learned to black box and then ran one of the best BBS's in the USA. Of course,several make that claim which was no big deal. After we formed USSPE, we supported UCF, I was freinds with Phantom Shark and JJ. We moved their warez and we pissed off ESI as much as possible. We had many battles with Pira-Ted and NEPA, alot of stories there, alot of war-dialing and crap. Here's the sad thing, a lot of those warez that some people put out (DD) were either already cracked or someone look the loaders off. This happened alot!!! Even to ESI. DD was around in my time but made little impact until 1987 on. Not that Robin was not good but he just cleaned up games that were not cracked completely or added cheat levels. Demos were not worth piss until the gaming scene for C64 started to drop. The Euros could program like no others, so to make your group look stronger, you hooked up with some Euro groups and called them your friends and put their demos on your bbs. So, all those loaders you see, don't mean that it wasn't stolen, even ESI got ripped once we cracked his little title maker. But at the time, before imports and demos, Eaglesoft was the leader, bar none! I was a big Fairlight fan myself. So, taking nothing from Crest, you may be great with demos but that wasn't the scene, that was the end of the scene.
/dam the /xe |
| | Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
interesting view! Im the polar opposite of you, I got a 64 in about 88/89, and Ive never really cared about the gaming/cracking scene much. To me the 'scene' is demos.
Its amazing that one little beige device can mean so much to so many people, in completely different ways! |
| | Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
Icon: lets just drop it, and agree to disagree. I'm really to old argue about it.
The-Shark: I respect you too man, always have. Yeah, Horizon was ok, he was better fixer than cracker tho... and we all know it. Besides, INC was beating NEC alot for awhile, no? :)
Also, those levelpacking tools and fastloaders, were all stuff coded by someone else (Legend members). It's not too hard to use someone elses tools for this. And he only got them cause of that connection with them. (As they didn't want him screwing up their releases) I bet Antitrack can confirm that.
Also, look at Metal Gear, or Castlevania, Qix, etc they are US games, released very late (91-92), and by NEC. They are not levelpacked (Qix isn't even broken out to proper files), and have no fastloaders. and Metal Gear doesn't even work. :> So out the window with that theory.
So many people recracked ESI, it is rediculous. I will point it out right here, EVERY single release, of Defender of the Crown, is recracked from ESI version. ALL of them. Except the Nostalgia version. how do I know this? because He left out a picture (one of the maidens) because the game was using 40 tracks, and all the data simply would not fit on 2 sides of a normal disk. Hmm every single version but ours, is missing the EXACT same picture, and they are byte identical, minus some trainers or intro... There is many cases of this. especially with V-max , Rapidlok, or EA protected games. In that the way he named the files, often times I think he miswrote the T/S values (which he used as file names) on purpose. It is quite obvious... I hate to bring such news to light as I know it might make alotta people angry... but the proof is right there too look at. Even some highly respected crackers recracked this game... it kinda made me sad. I am sure I could find other examples of this if I wanted to bother... but it is just a waste of time to. Just stumbled on because we did do that game from original. Also fixed the fatal bug in the game , which I am very surprised no one else did... There is also the 4th maiden picture, which is lost for good, becuase the v-max team messed up and there is no t/s data to point to it. The way the disk is contructed, it would take a complicated tool to actually find this data... so the pic seems lost forever. Check it against the amiga version which DOES have all 4. There is space on the c64 original disk for it...
Yeah you were there when I was not. so I will not argue with any first hand experience.
as for everyone else about the charts, ummm the scene is dead, haven't you noticed by now? :D I view them as all time charts, and minus the lame downvoting people do (and keeping it hidden) they look preety much ok to me. But yeah, we need more people voting... and the PEERS of that skill, not just cause you remember liking XXX group from whenever...
cheers
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