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Forums > CSDb Discussions > Wiring?

2003-06-24 14:44

jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578

Wiring?

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, the english I read here is a bit messy for me to understand. Do I smell someone accusing me that I wire, or the opposite?
Quote from the latest Beergarden.

"Personally I'm a beleiver that 'REAL C64' gfx artist should pixel out the whole picture that they draw. Not wire it from Amiga or PC onto C64 then touch it up in an art package and then lay claim to fame on it.To me this is MIGHTY LAME and for these of you reading who don't know what I'm getting at, then just search your spreads for some recent gfx by JAILBIRD. Study his gfx carefully, they look good don't they..? So they should as wiring doesn't require anyway near the work or effort as does pixelling every dot on the C64."

Hope I just missunderstood these lines, but anyhow, proofs about my cheating would be higly appreciated, all the more as I always (unlike other "artists") prove my C64 handpixelling by numerous work stages.
I don't get why was I picked out nevertheless, wether if the author of the article thinks I cheat or not.

Then, you spend countless hours on minor innovations in c64 pixelling, you dedicate original graphics to the audience, whilst NOt COPYing other graphics artists, you fight on every kind of forums for high class fair-play on pixelling-competitions, or for the workstage-rules, and then you get a nice slap on your face. Well thank you.

My motivation is on the floor and my sadness is really deep. :(((

... 42 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2003-06-28 02:34

Mermaid

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 338

<norwegian gfx propaganda> listen you infidels, Zoomatic is the only program and Olav Mørkrid is God </norwegian gfx propaganda>

2003-06-28 11:51

J.T.
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 2

zoom what ? ;)

2003-06-28 12:35

Spinball

Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 88

so if i´m using all this cmd-extra-hardware-shit, like hd or even super-cpu would that be an "illegal" advantage?
saving will be a lot faster and one could add some more undo steps to an reu/superramcard-enabled amica-paint.
or even petter, what about a gfx-editor for some "modern os" like wings, just think about the possibilities...

it´s strange that this kind of diskussions always are about gfx. i mean no one seems to care if a coder did his code in a simple monitor on c64 or with some macro-crossassembler on pc/amiga.

2003-06-28 12:39

fade
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290

you dont need all that stuff, just an action replay v5. the only viagra for your 64 :)

2003-06-28 13:24

Stryyker

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468

I guess with code it doesn't change (or very little if it does). As for the extra hardware like CMD made, many dislike it and don't care about it. C64 + 1541 and maybe a freeze cart and joystick, nothing more for most.

2003-06-28 14:29

jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578

Supercpu, reu, ramlink, hd? I wouldn't even dare to call such an equipment a Commodore 64. :)
Crossasembler won't make your code better, as far as I'm awared. With pixelling on PC, most likely one can do such things a pixelgraphician with average skills would not be able to do on the c64 (just look at the transparent effect as an example, in GFX2 it's just a click, but even a talented pixeller suffers hours and hours to paint a huge transparent effect on the C64).

2003-06-28 18:24

blackdroid
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 84

Crossassemblers can help in the process if they assemble faster, support more nifty features, does not have the same size limits as on c64.

2003-06-28 23:00

cadaver

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160

Ah, but on PC there'll be distractions such as hentai or IRC :)

2003-06-29 13:00

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3048

It doesn't matter which program you use to pixel or draw the image it's just a tool. For a compo, there should be only one rule. No conversions. The rest (the techniques used, the software for creation used) are not important.

Although I see a reason in your points, Jailbird, but graphics compo is not a sport discipline. Unless you will force everyone to use the same GFX editor and draw online on the party, you will never force people to submit pictures drawn on other systems. As a party organiser I can agree with things like no-scrolling-pictures, no-interlace-images, no-conversions (creating images using converting programs), no-copies (creating images by redrawing, converting other authors work), or even with - submit drawing stages otherwise you will be disqualified, but I can't tell people which software, or hardware use to create them. The only rule about hardware is,that it should be executable on C64.

Let's be pragmatic. We can't enforce too much rules, as it would put away all the joy.

2003-06-30 19:34

jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578

None the less, I am still at a state where I couldn't agree with my conscience if I would play with advantages others can't, and reach a spot infront of those who used a C64 only. But that's my problem only, eh... :) Although, as less serious I get with all this scening thing, the more I reach toward a point where I see the importance of using a help of a PC instead of a using a C64 only, for making C64 graphics. I often run out of time while pixelling, leaving my works semi-finished. Numerous of times I realise I'm spending much more time with my C64 than with my friends. "Luckily", we are enjoying a scene that totally excludes the need of the physical existence of the computer we're "working" for/on. Setting rules against/for the hardware or tools you (don't) use while pixelling is senseless indeed, I agree. Preventive rules however, could be intelligible, for example the workstages-rule, that could defend the graphicians that spent much work and time for creating from those who open some photos, cut, paste, play a bit with filters, nasty photoshop tools, push a few buttons, and call that "creating graphics". That's pure "wiring" or "converting"in my definition, and the workstage-rule works just fine for excluding such images from compos. The same rule could prevent most of those who pixel on PC (as long they don't pixel in programs that are especially made for c64 pixelling).
As I expressed many times on this thread, the only muck in my eye is that the C64 software is reachable for all, free off charge, whilst the PC/Amiga/Whatever hardware is not, thus the advantages you get with pixelling on another platform is in my eyes, unfair to those who pixel on raw C64s. Yes, I look on compos a bit more serious as other scene actvities in general, I can compare it to a race after all. A rough example, but if you'd compete on drilling a hole into the wall, where you'd forced to use a mechanic driller while your opponent has an electric, I wonder what your opinion would be on that ("it's not the hardware, that's just a tool, all you create is a hole after all" ;P ).

Is there a program for creating musics on PC where you get random, original, and cool intstruments with a single click? Where a bunch of tasks are automated, easy to handle and the overall results sound much better than if the music would sound if made on the c64? If there would be such a program, what would be your reaction if a music made with that PC editor would tear down others on a compo that made their works on C64, with native, raw, hard work? You'd move forward without a word, obtain the tool and create musics in it yourself.

Were you guys satisfied seeing Rayden's and Cyclone's and IFLI infront of DeeKay's UIFLI monsterbastard from Symmek2000? Dudes, two of the top3 images were done on Amiga/PC! I recall complaints those days, from the same persons that are beside non-limited pixelling today. Funny, or rather strange.

However, if a no-conversion rule (as you say, creating images using converting programs) stays, that would exclude PC graphics tools anyway, or using another platform than C64. As you are, read, "creating /c64/ images using converting programs /or converting routines/.

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