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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 486 |
What is a "crack"?
In the release On the Farm III +8FD there started a discussion about what is a "crack". In CSDb rules a crack is defined as an unauthorized modification. In other scenes this would be called a "hack" or a "mod".
I hardly remember any games since 1994 which really needed to remove a protection, so most "crackers" started to use different clauses to declare their work, e.g. "raped" or something like this. But there also should be made a difference between linking an intro or training a game and other improvements like highscore-savers, bugfixes, improved packing and loading routines, etc. Crack might not be the correct name for it but what else to call it?
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Quoting Skate
It makes sense not to call a product "crack", if there is no protection, nothing to "crack". My point was, what about the <1994 releases which doesn't have a real protection? Should we try to find them one by one and change their category as well?
What's a protection after all? According to the programmer of V-Max, it's a fastloader and not a protection scheme. But then again in the early days it was already a "copy protection" if files were hidden from the directory so you couldn't simply LOAD and SAVE them.
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Achim
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2010
Posts: 28 |
This thread really makes me think. Celtic stated (On the Farm III +8FD) that there's no need for another category "that has no merit'. Now, after reading Rough's, Adam's and Graham's posts, it seems like it's nothing but a big misunderstanding to pay tribute to those who removed copyprotections back in the 80's.
At least it seems to be a misunderstanding to give them credit for their technical achievements. Maybe they should be credited mainly for networking?
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2219 |
@Graham: In one of the other 700 or so discussions on the same issue, some even claimed, tape files with auto-run were protected, which made them assume, pure freezin' and saving the RAM from $0800 to $FFFF was already removing a copy protection and, hence, cracking...
@Achim: We just ain't livin' in the 80s anymore - though most of us wish we were. Back then, cracking was in the first place removing protections. If there was always much "merit" for that, is a different story, since almost everyone with a suitable cartridge and some minimum knowledge could reset-crack a onefiler, but only few could really crack some multi-disk games. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
Quote:We just ain't livin' in the 80s anymore - though most of us wish we were. Back then, cracking was in the first place removing protections.
back in 1984, the bulk of "cracking" involved typing "load" and then "save" :) |
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TWW
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 545 |
Imagine a dog with it's snoute up another dog's ass. Then imagine some other dogs standing near by watching and one of them say:
"Poor lad... Hooked on crack..." |
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Skate
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 494 |
Quote: Hey Skate, I'm afraid you missed something. The category 'crack' will never be changed, because it's part of the c64 tradition. That of course makes the c64 scene a die-hard scene, but that's the way it is.
Also you are missing a point. I'm not the authority here. I'm the one who is "asking" to elite crackers about this protection subject which Didi brought forward.
As far as I understand, Didi suggests not to call crack some of the new so called cracked games because they are not really cracked since they don't have any protection. So, i asked about the old games. Are they all really protected? Noone is trying to change the crack category. But if we're going to call some of the new cracks something else, we should change some of the old cracks' product category as well. Here is my point. I'm not the one who is able to identify if a crack is really deserved to be called a crack etc. I'm just corious on this subject. |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
@TheRyk: Actually I do not only claim auto-start on tape is a copy protection, it definately is. Kept people from entering SAVE"NAME",8,1 after loading. Additionally disabling [Run/Stop]+[Restore] helps even more.
Also when defining cracking as the removement of a copy protection then freezing IS cracking. In a lame and dirty manner without the need of skills, but definately the frozen (or freezed if you take it as proper verb) files were copy.- and playable.
Quote:i know exactly what was considered "fake group" back in the days.
@Groepaz: When you know, why do you ask? It figures! Brainbombs were unlike TWG never intended to make fun of others or release crapshit only. Why someone gets the idea that Brainbombs would be a fake-group is beyond any logic. Because the member status was secret? So Elite were fake too.
And I've got a secret to tell... Troep and Hitmen have a "bunch of similarities" too. Doh!
@Graham: To add to your discussion with TheRyk, "According to the programmer of V-Max, it's a fastloader and not a protection scheme." - of course a single utility does not necessarily represent one branch only. If a fastload tool keeps someone from copying the disk it's installed on as side effect, it's a protection too. Intended or not doesn't matter. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
Quoting Rough
@Graham: To add to your discussion with TheRyk, "According to the programmer of V-Max, it's a fastloader and not a protection scheme." - of course a single utility does not necessarily represent one branch only. If a fastload tool keeps someone from copying the disk it's installed on as side effect, it's a protection too. Intended or not doesn't matter.
Ofcourse, that's what I tried to say with that. It is a protection even though the programmer himself never considered it as one.
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Adam
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 323 |
Quoting Rough...Also when defining cracking as the removement of a copy protection then freezing IS cracking. In a lame and dirty manner without the need of skills, but definately the frozen (or freezed if you take it as proper verb) files were copy.- and playable.
i see what you're getting at, sure.. freezing gets around the protection and allows you to copy a program but freezing has nothing to do with 'cracking', freezing is just plain ol' freezing. =)
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
Quote:Brainbombs were unlike TWG never intended to make fun of others or release crapshit only.
please explain how Skramble +5HDF falls into this "crapshit only" category. also please explain how any of their releases (every single one a so called first release, btw - except the one above) is different from what other supposedly non fake groups release these days and why that doesnt make these groups fake too. please be specific.
Quote:Why someone gets the idea that Brainbombs would be a fake-group is beyond any logic.
lets say i have talked to a former member and he told me so. and the question isnt why, the question is by what definition not - so what *does* define a "fake group" then? please be specific.
Quote:So Elite were fake too.
so we already found out that secret member status is irrelevant. what *is* relevant then? please be specific. |
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