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Sander
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 496 |
An update on ‘Pixel art in the C64 demoscene’
Dear fellow sceners,
In response to the comments we received, we’ve made some changes to the document.
Our goal was always to find common ground to maintain the fun and integrity of our hobby.
What this is not:
- It’s not written to limit anyone (only to encourage openness)
- It’s not aimed at specific individuals (it’s a scene wide practice)
Read the document here
We’d really love to hear your thoughts on this update.
Please post them in this thread, be kind and keep it constructive and on-topic please. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
We'll see how drunk i am this weekend. I havent touched this crap for a decade (wtf), i am sure kickass broke by now and it wont even assemble the old source anymore :) |
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acrouzet
Registered: May 2020
Posts: 97 |
Quote: I can do the same with regular .sid, no problem. Its just another commandline :) (And this one is 2 channels sid too)
And indeed - converted gfx is usually super easy to spot on first sight. At least if you have played with this a bit yourself, the flaws and typical patterns are often very obvious.
Converting regular .sid still requires you to make all the instruments and do some manual adjustments with effects. I'd actually say that in some cases converting is harder than just inputting into the tracker directly.
If most people indeed can spot converted graphics easily, then is this entire discussion just about trying to get the scene to wholly accept or reject certain graphics-making processes? I think shifting everyone's perceptions of what artistic processes are accepted may be near-impossible unfortunately. Certainly fighting over it constantly isn't gonna make any progress if what's been happening so far is any indication. Educating people (in a non-judgmental way) to value artistic integrity is one of the ways I can see this issue getting better though. |
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ws
Registered: Apr 2012
Posts: 251 |
Hold my beer while i make this easier for you
How to convert MIDI to SID the lazy way! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote:Converting regular .sid still requires you to make all the instruments and do some manual adjustments with effects.
Not for MIDI - i already have complete GM set and just convert, including slides and such stuff. The only thing to do manually is selecting which channels will be mapped where.
Of course to make it *good*, it will require more effort - but the same is true for gfx. |
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acrouzet
Registered: May 2020
Posts: 97 |
I stand corrected, wasn't aware of these tools. Though frankly these tools have existed for other sound systems for ages and people in chiptune circles don't really take them seriously in my experience. |
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Dr. TerrorZ
Registered: Oct 2013
Posts: 17 |
Quote: @deev - not that i am a fan of his work, but would you consider the art of andy warhol unworthy to be entered into a compo, as in "unoriginal/uncreative" ?
What might have been an ingenious and needed move in the world of art at a particular moment in time, doesn't necessarily have a place within demoscene. I don't know why not. Buy at least simply taking someone's work and showing it as your own cannot really be equated with what pop artists were doing.
Perhaps the gesture was already so old by 1980s, and cannot work the same way in a world that's gone so far digital. Although the Warhol stunt with Amiga is now well remembered, I don't think many thought it very interesting that he could now recreate his old approach on a computer.
I guess the Warhol case shows the AI debate about authorship and what passes for creativity, are already rather old. The issue was raised eventually, whether it was right to copy Curt Swan's Superman just like that, or rip off the graphic designers who did the original Brillo boxes or Campbell's soup can designs. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Using that kind of tools is common business in "the industry" too :) Chris Hülsbeck wrote one as well (Musyx for the Gameboy) :) |
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acrouzet
Registered: May 2020
Posts: 97 |
Quote: Using that kind of tools is common business in "the industry" too :) Chris Hülsbeck wrote one as well (Musyx for the Gameboy) :)
Yeah. It really is a subjective thing that can vary in perception from case to case. Though in most cases the "midislaps" are just badly done "8-bit cover" spam on YouTube which is easily discernible by anyone who knows a bit about the sound hardware.
In all honesty, I'm tempted to say: if it isn't ripping anyone off, who cares how it was made? To most, what matters is the end result's quality and its use of hardware limitations. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote:In all honesty, I'm tempted to say: if it isn't ripping anyone off, who cares how it was made?
That's pretty much what i was saying before.
I can turn it the other way around too. If some picture has this typical converter look to me - i don't give a damn if its actually converted or not, i won't like it either case. No Birthlist or reference list will change that. (And some of the supposed top pixelers fall into this frequently) |
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acrouzet
Registered: May 2020
Posts: 97 |
and what usually eventually happens with rip-offs is that those who do the ripping off get caught. I don't recall seeing many covers passed off as original works in original music compos.
I think the conversation may have drifted from the original point of the use of AI. I'm of the opinion that AI art isn't solely the creative work/property of the prompter, so in a sense I'm of the opinion that not disclosing the use of AI is kind of like "ripping off the AI". The problem with AI is that there isn't an original work to compare with, thus less of a chance of detecting its use. |
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