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carlsson
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 41 |
SID out of tune?
Recently a Speccy person elsewhere posted that:
Quote:The SID .. tended to be out of tune at extreme frequencies (the Speccy's beeper also suffers this problem). Where as the AY is much closer to perfect pitch.
Apart from being typical C64/SID-bashing (most Speccy people despise the SID for muddy sound blah blah blah), does the poster have a point? I can't recall I ever heard a SID tune that suffers from lack of frequency resolution so it sounds out of tune, except from when it was done on purpose or the musician didn't bother to get a good frequency table.
I know from personal experience that the VIC-20 has a very limited frequency resolution, but it is a completely different chip and supposedly nobody mixes up the two. Maybe if one uses very high frequencies (several thousand Hz?) on the SID, these notes will not be in tune, but few people can hear the difference, and it depends on monitor or other speakers if they can reproduce the notes faithfully. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5095 |
when it comes to sheer cpu power the speccy is better. |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
You miss the fact that even though the Z80 offers some more powerful commands it also lacks some. Especially the lack of a variable indexed addressing mode sucks. |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
I think Oswald also missed the fact that z80 is t3h gh3Y
Someone send him another condom. Loser.
:)
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5095 |
you miss the fact that a 4x4 torus on speccy including full bitmap redraw is much faster than on c64, eventhough the 6510 has some more powerful instructions. why on earth do u want indexed absolute adressing when u can index the whole 64k ? ld (HL) or something :D much more powerful than messing with zp, because you can manipulate the adress internally using the registers instead of memory writes. |
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TNT
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 189 |
"ld (HL) or something :D"? So you haven't coded Z80 and are able to compare addressing modes? Yes, Z80 is faster if you can access memory in linear fashion or with constant modulo, but as soon as you have to do indexed table access you have to use multiple instructions to get that one byte from memory into one of Z80's registers. Speaking of registers, moving a value from one register set to alternate one is multi-instruction operation, so if you have to do that often there isn't much advantage over zeropage access. |
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Shadow
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 355 |
Well, when I code on Z80 I do miss the indexed (lda $ADDR,x/y and sta $ADDR,x/y) instructions sometime, but you can work around it by aligning data at $100-intervals and manipulating one half of the register-pair on the Z80. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5095 |
why cant you face it that the z80 is faster :) "moving a value from one register set to alternate one is multi-instruction operation" obviously a good coder will not do that. and having a lot of registers, and even 2 sets of them is an advantage, funny how you turn that into a disadvantage in a second. if only I would face the problem on c64 to move a register to the 2nd register set ! :) instead I have to use crappy zp and tsx coz of the luck of registers. |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
I understand your arguments Oswald, but STILL, how come many games are pure crap, such as Elite on the Speccy even if the CPU is THAT much faster? Are all those games coded by bad coders? Those are the arguments that are against you Oswald.
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
I dont think he's saying speccy is a better machine (which it clearly is not), simply that the z80 is faster than 6502, which is probably true for most things.
Obviously you could pick a specific application where 6502 is faster than z80, but generally youd have to say z80 is faster.
C64 kicks speccy due to custom hardware though (VIC-II and SID).
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 2014 |
@style: True, that's a big difference. |
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