| |
4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
What is PETSCII - A guide for compo orgas
Lately, We've seen several cases of releases that don't adhere to PETSCII standard being entered into compos. Examples are: 11th place at Revision 2024 Textmode Graphics compo called "U-MOD3L", 4th place at Deadline 2024 Textmode Graphics compo called "Depth Logo with Obligatory Skull & Blood" and 2nd place at Xenium 2024 ASCII/ANSI/PETSCII compo called "Fantastic 4 Cracking Group logo".
The first mentioned example uses a custom character set instead of standard PETSCII. The second and third mentioned examples use multiple background colors and a custom combination of both "upper" and "lower" PETSCII character sets which is not possible in standard PETSCII.
Several PETSCII editors/paint programs out there allow for this faux/"fantasy" modes by untying the newcomer authors from original hardware restrictions. Some of them churn out C64 executables that utilize either normal character mode but with custom character set defined and written along with the displayer, ECM mode again with custom character set being written in the prg file, or downright hires bitmap mode (which is way out of even most lenient definition of "textmode graphics"). This furtherly confuses both newcomer authors and compo orgas because it leaves them under false impression that the file is compliant with standard PETSCII.
The shortest possible definition of PETSCII would be: if a picture can be recreated by using BASIC to print it on the screen (thx Groepaz) then it's a PETSCII. Or, if you can recreate it with no commands whatsoever (other than 2 POKEs for border/paper colors), by physically using cursor keys and the rest of the C64 keyboard Raquel Meyers style then it's a PETSCII for sure. I know compo orgas can't go writing BASIC programs or playing around with a real C64. Therefore I've attached a precise PETSCII specification at the bottom of this text. The origin of this specification is Shine's PETSCII World Discord server and the author is wbochar (a PETSCII artist and coder/maintainer of Petmate). Now, I'm aware that orgas can't reprint all this text when organizing a compo, but if they read and understand it, I'm sure they can distill the gist of it into something shorter that fits their needs. As long as they themselves are aware of the precise definition. Additionally, if future orgas are not sure about a specific entry, they can always contact Shine's PETSCII World on Discord or X, as the place is inhabited by nice people ready to help.
=======================================================================
Single Frame 'standard' PETSCII in PRG format
1. Uses built in character rom, UPPER or LOWER case (no mixing or flipping between cases).
2. No relocating ROM's, soft/custom roms, or copied ROM's.
3. petscii/data in standard (for that machine) screen and color memory area (if there is a color area)
4. Frame size is the default character editor dimensions for that platform (c64: 40x25 chars)
5. static background and border color (if that machine has that)
6. loops showing the picture (ie "jmp *")
7. No sprites, music, splits. rasterbars or other code manipulating the system. If you have to clarify something else thats legal, then assume No.
8. Auto starts from basic
So basically the PRG (program) on c64 just loads the screen chars and colors, sets the background, border and "pauses/loops" showing the pic.
Most of the time, I mean 99% we are talking about a c64 showing the petscii.
But technically, there are few platforms out there with their own distinct PETSCII/Colors/Frame implementations.
examples:
c64: 40x25 chars, 16 colors, background and border color.
PetX032: 40x25 or 80x25 chars, Mono Color (green/White), black background and no border color. There are multiple Char roms available for various pet versions..
vic20: 22x23 chars, Color is Fluid.., border 8 colors, background can have 16. The char roms are closer to the Pet than the c64
c128, c16... all have different color, screen size and rom differences..
So when you enter a compo or post a 'PETSCII' online.. we are usually talking about c64 40x25 chars.
If the compo has specific rules like "C64 Micro PETSCII 16x16 Mono Color" then override the values in the list above with the compo values.
Which means I can put 16 x 16 anywhere on the 40x25 screen with one color and choose another color for the Background, Border.
Any messing with the underlying char ROM's makes this a highres image that resembles a PETSCII, but is not a PETSCII.
The whole fun of this, is to work within the confines of PETSCII.
It's great to make art however you want to do it.. but if you want to call it a PETSCII image.. then those are the rules/guidelines.
There are many other formats that are PETSCII.. Wide and Long that scroll, animations, gfx demos. They all use the default charset/colors for that platform. |
|
... 67 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....
|
| |
MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1078 |
Quoting chatGPZQuote:Whereas in the Amiga ASCII scene the use of custom fonts seem to be encouraged.
Not really - the default is "Topaz" (Or an alternative one that is very similar). Nothing custom though.
Well yes it's not anything goes, but it's definitely not just Topaz and only Topaz. As a bare minimum there's Kickstart 1.x and 2.x Topaz to deal with, but places like https://www.asciiarena.se default to mOsOul with MicroKnight and P0T-NOoDLE as options.
So if we're talking about multi platform text mode compos, even a rule such as ROM font only becomes tricky. |
| |
wbochar
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 29 |
@MagerValp:
Standard PETSCII is whatever the basic/screen editor supports for that unmodified platform. It's a static image. If you were entering in basic on a c64.. you poke the 2 colours for BG/Border then use the screen editor to create the image. C= + Shift switches the Uppercase/lowercase mode. That's what is meant when using basic to enter a PETSCII.
Sure you can have other types of PETSCII variant images out there, like there are in other image categories. But there is always a base version of the format. That is what being discussed here.
@chatGPZ: SEQ file as part of the submission, like a work stage. I would submit a PRG for the ease of the compo and an seq as a work proof. It would also help new people to validate their work against their tools. |
| |
MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1078 |
Quoting 4gentE
IF we standardize? I thought it was standardized already. Why don’t we look at ALL (that’s 100%) PETSCII entries at CSDb.
Yes, CSDb has a fairly clear standard of what PETSCII is, but aren't you talking about multi platform text mode compos?
CSDb's definition makes perfect sense for a pure C64 PETSCII compo, but it isn't necessarily the best option for a multi platform compo.
This is fine. |
| |
4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
Quote:So if we're talking about multi platform text mode compos, even a rule such as ROM font only becomes tricky.
As I’ve been told, in Deadline’s multi platform text mode compo, there were rules exclusive to each format. For example, PETSCII was limited to 40x25 while for Amiga multiscreen was allowed. It’s similar at other parties. I’m not suggesting this is either a good or a bad solution, I just want to say that the problem described in the quote is thus not a problem at all. Or, to be precise, it’s not a newly introduced problem. |
| |
MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1078 |
Quoting wbocharStandard PETSCII is whatever the basic/screen editor supports for that unmodified platform. It's a static image. If you were entering in basic on a c64.. you poke the 2 colours for BG/Border then use the screen editor to create the image. C= + Shift switches the Uppercase/lowercase mode. That's what is meant when using basic to enter a PETSCII.
That's an inadequate or at least incomplete definition for the TED machines. The 121 colors are only available by directly poking color ram. Printing or typing only gives you a 16 color subset of the palette. |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote:@chatGPZ: SEQ file as part of the submission, like a work stage. I would submit a PRG for the ease of the compo and an seq as a work proof. It would also help new people to validate their work against their tools.
For the ease of the compo, some (pc based) viewer could be used that supports them - just like it is usually done for PC or Amiga. Having to deal with native executables actually makes it more annoying for the organizers. |
| |
MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1078 |
Quoting chatGPZPretty much all compos have had a "no animations" rule since forever. Some have "one screen" now to eliminate the converted mega large ANSI stuff that became popular in the past years.
Well, here's the PETSCII compo winner from Pågadata 2024, with multi screen smooth scroll and animation: Kojak
Categorized as PETSCII on CSDb (as it should be, imho). |
| |
4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
Excuse me for asking, but what exactly do you want? I see you are pushing back from whatever angle. So first it was “this won’t work for multi-platform, only PETSCII exclusively”. Now it’s “Aha! But what about trying to do it on a TED machine from BASIC”? Please, don’t take offense by my asking you what do you want? I’ll tell you what I want. I want already established standards to be respected in the future too. It seems that big party orgas have trouble understanding PETSCII standards in the light of new tools that allow for impossible pics. If you’re playing devil’s advocate, so that we can come up with a more bullet proof definition I thank you and salute you sir! But if you’re just giving artificial pushback only for pushback sake, please stop. Allow me to apologize once more if I misunderstood something as English is not my native language. Thank you sir. |
| |
chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote:Well, here's the PETSCII compo winner from Pågadata 2024, with multi screen smooth scroll and animation: Kojak
They don't seem to have any rules whatsoever too, not sure why you want to mention them in this context. |
| |
MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1078 |
Quoting 4gentEExcuse me for asking, but what exactly do you want?
You've opened a discussion thread about compo rules for text mode graphics, so I'm assuming you want feedback on those proposed rules.
I find the proposed rules both limited and rather lacking, and I also think it's okay to run a text mode compo in the wider sense than what you're proposing here.
You don't have to agree with me, and that's fine. |
| Previous - 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 - Next |
