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2006-03-11 16:32

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086

How low one can get #2

Making money by stepping on the ppls back that made demos for free, for the scene ?

http://home.ngi.de/digitalmemories/buy.html

if you charge no more than DVD and postal costs I take my words back. Otherwise.....

... 75 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2006-03-15 12:48

tecM0

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 40

Quote: hein, yeah while the MUCH more work of the original authors worths 0 euros...

one DVD is MAX 2 euro, and postal cost 1 euro max,

they earn atleast 7 on each.

whish I could live on someone else's work for free.

what a bullshit treat! osw&co. ... your all dont know how expensive it is to make a prof. DVD. so..STFU please. this is damn stupid.

2006-03-15 13:01

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086

tecmo, lighten us up

2006-03-15 18:11

Nemezis
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 22

I do strongly believe that contents of this DVD are NOT copyrighted and can be spreaded and copied by anyone ? Probably it is not possible to have copyrights to something that was created with use of materials without permission of authors.
I just wonder if creators of this DVD realise, that some ppl from C64 scene are now lawyers..? :)

2006-03-15 20:37

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086

wikipedia:

United Kingdom copyright methodology

British law states that an individual's work is placed under copyright law as soon as it leaves that person's mind and is placed in some physical form, be it a painting, a musical work written in manuscript or an architectural schematic.

Australian Copyright Law

Typically, a work must meet minimal standards of originality in order to qualify for copyright, and the copyright expires after a set period of time

USA Copyright Law

In the United States, copyright has relatively recently been made automatic, which has had the effect of making it more like a property right. Thus, as with property, a copyright need not be granted or obtained through official registration with the government.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Several exclusive rights typically attach to the holder of a copyright:

* to produce copies or reproductions of the work and to sell those copies (including, typically, electronic copies)

Hungarian law says that the author has copyright on his creation in the moment he created it. (automagicaly)

and it is not possible for the author to gave up his copyright.

2006-03-15 20:49

Nemezis
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 22

Let's say that someone has an early, amator records of Pink Floyd, which were spreaded as not commercial, for friends and fans. I think he CAN NOT release and sell it as commercial CD without author's agreement. OR, if he sells it only taking costs of making copies, this stuff is still not copyrighted. This is what I was thinkig about writing upper message. I think that they can not put "copyright" on these DVDs.

2006-03-15 20:51

Shortcircuit
Account closed

Registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 12

Oswald, im not making myelf clear i guess..Or u don't want to understand me! Im just saying if somenone makes a dvd with c64 emu files and not does lame avi's with good navigation system etc then im willing to pay 10,- and like i said before for god's sake try to understand. With download i mean 4.7 gigs of c=64 emu files. not some stupid avi's worth 5 megs. And if you can recall wat i said before "it ould be nice if they ask for permision".Ofcoure the web is for free, thank god, but like i said don't have the time nor bandwith to download 4.7 gigs worth of c=64 emu files. Where i live that would cost me rond 1000,-. Believe it or not!

2006-03-15 21:00

Trazan

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 620

Shortcircuit; Write me a PM and I got material for some 50 DVDs to send you, you can even design your OWN compilation.

5E Only....Im serious about this!

2006-03-15 21:50

Nemezis
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 22

"it would be nice if they ask for permision". I'm afraid they have no right to release this without permision. Noone has right to use someone's tunes, gfx & code for commercial purposes without permision. Can I rip gfx from some PC-demo, use it in website project and sell ? Can I use someone's music as background for TV commercial without his permission ?

2006-03-16 08:18

Optimus

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122

Oswald: Of course I agree that your work is several times more worth (and at least more respected) than those people who do DVD collections. I just can't get it why you care so much about that incident? You do demos for fun, some people put some effort to make some DVD collections (Ok, much fewer than yours. Still,. e.g. there was a lot of work behind MindcandyDVD iirc, more than you'd think), not mainly for money which are still needed because of the package, but to spread the scene or make a nice nostalgic collection which they can watch on their DVD player. So, why you suddenly wake up and say "Hey! I could be making the money, which they are making with my hard work instead". But you never really started making demos for that reason ;)

And those who say videos are lame, yes they are. But perhaps those videos are for people who don't bother to plugin a C64 or emulator and might be interested to see how a C64 demo would look like. That was the philosophy of MindcandyDVD too (esp. for old PC demos that even sceners can't run properly anymore), to show a bit of the demoscene to some friends in some kind of documentary DVD without bothering with making the demo work or trying to find the real hardware.

2006-03-16 08:50

Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2970

Yeah.. the maker of Meet The Family also put +H2K on the DVD. He tried to contact me but the mails didn't end up in my box, though. So in the end somebody else in Plush made the subtitles, but did not give explicit agreement about general publication. The demo was added to the DVD without me knowing or anybody of the producers having given explicit agreement.

As soon as i found out i wrote several furious mails to the DVD maker, mainly because i don't tolerate the combination of
a) not having an explicit permission by the author
b) selling the DVD as commercial product
c) not uploading an image to scene.org or related sites.

In the last of his letters he said that "of course" one day the image will be available for download. Yet it's unclear whether that'll be an "official" upload or somebody loading up a DVD rip.

Shortened mail conversation:

Me:
Why not make an image of the DVD publically available?

You know that making money with demos (without their creators' consent) is considered lame?

DVD maker:
Well, maybe you are right, but I think it is not so lame, because everybody who sent me subtitles are accept this and it is not a big business, because the profit of one DVD is 0.16 EUR (because of the free copies and so on)
I hope you are not angree with me, because I wrote to Brix, and he wasn't against it.

Me:
Excuse me, but i AM angry with you.

Actually, the point is not the profit you make or not, but that you sell something that was never meant for selling by any of its producers, while not making it available to the public.
If you'd hold back that image until you covered your initial expenses for it, ok - but it seems like that's not your plan.
(Also, i'm not after royalties or shit like that, of course.)

About my demo - that Brix said ok does not count, as he only made minor stuff in the demo - that is, the hidden parts. Also i heard from other people whose work is featured on the dvd that they did not respond to your mail and that you also initially did not ask whether it's okay to put the demo on the dvd but rather, whether they could contribute subtitles. So it's not just my stuff that's on the dvd without an explicit permission.
Besides, i am not happy with the subtitles to my demo, and being asked properly, i could have provided my own or just said "no" at all.

See, i could actually take legal action against you, as this is simply copyright violation. You put stuff on a COMMERCIAL product without the producers' consent. But this step would do more harm than good to anybody involved, so consider yourself lucky.

Anyways, some people will sooner or later upload that stuff anyways, so i could as well shut up now and leave you in peace. But it's a question of principle.

It's sad that we have gotten to the point where adding disclaimers and license files is needed again, just like for amiga demos a while ago, or current pc demos.

DVD maker:
of course one day it will be downloadable...

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