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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
Votes
Why do some of you hide your votes? HMM? this makes no sense. And stop downvoting people just because you do not like them.
This database is supposed to be accurate, not a place for you to continue with your stupid grudges and scene wars.
a note to perff: since Secret Man, WDR etc have been deleted from this, I think you should also remove all their votes.
and get rid of this hidden voting, if people cannot publicy stand by their vote choices, then they shouldn't be voting at all.
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Quote: [quote}
Groepaz: I guess things are a bit different for me, being a mag editor, as I saw all the votesheets coming in, who was filling them in etc.
[/quote}
i was a mag editor aswell back in the 80s - and as such i can say that the charts here are 100 times "better" than they ever were in a mag :)
Well, I disagree. I preferred the mag charts to the charts here. Both have their negatives but there is a lot more problems here than there were with some of the magazines.
Getting back to the original discussion, downvoting and anonymous voting should be removed. Open a poll to see who agrees <-- THIS is a nice idea!
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
i can't see how downvoting can be removed, isnt everyone free to vote whatever he likes? i said it often enough, i always vote either 1 or 10, so all my votes are either up or down votes i guess? =D |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Everyone can vote with 1 to 10 - sure. But by anon. voting these retards can use fake accounts and deliberately award low points (downvoting) or high points (upvoting) to make the chart reflect things how THEY want it to look. Each person should have one vote per release/scener/group only.
Removing anon. voting and voting by fake scene profiles would eliminate help this. And exposing votes from all sceners would promote a more honest and transparent system.
Btw, magazine charts rule! CSDB charts suck! POLL PLEASE! ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11360 |
what you are saying pretty much boils down to what i am saying since ages: every account should be linked to a scener profile.
anonymous votes aren't the problem, really - it's a lot of other details that are flawed. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Most magazines followed the basic honesty-approach, as a voter you had to follow:
No votes for yourself.
No votes for your own productions.
No votes for your group(s).
No votes for your group productions.
No votes for your group members.
Because I personally have no problem showing my votes, I struggle to understand why other people have difficulty showing theirs? What are some of the reasons that people would do an anonymous vote? Perhaps they're scared of retribution? Or don't want to undertake the pains of explaining themselves further about their decision? |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3052 |
I would like to remind you all that downvoting is not allowed here (according to "rules & behaviour" section and we are internally agreed that people who behave this way should be be banned for that.
That includes also the voters that have their votes visible, because that actually doesn't matter. Downvote stays downvote and it can be quite easily spotted.
Until now mods don't have possibility to punish such behaviour but it's a matter of time when that will be implemented.
Greetings to Yoko...
As for the other downnvotings. Contact any of the mods about the problem (provide the link to the downvoted database entry) and we will discuss that internally. We have posibilty to spot the username, check the user behaviour and decide what to do.
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
CreamD: amazing, but it still doesn't solve the obvious flaws of the chart system on this BBS.
Admin (where art thou?): Can we have Charts of 2007 seperate to All-time Charts?
Will there be transparency for voters (no anonymous voting, open a poll if your own opinion is too heavy on this subject)?
The rules I mentioned before; can the database be programmed so that there is no way to bypass them?
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3052 |
Quote: CreamD: amazing, but it still doesn't solve the obvious flaws of the chart system on this BBS.
Admin (where art thou?): Can we have Charts of 2007 seperate to All-time Charts?
Will there be transparency for voters (no anonymous voting, open a poll if your own opinion is too heavy on this subject)?
The rules I mentioned before; can the database be programmed so that there is no way to bypass them?
I agree with votes going non-anonymous and Perff admitted (over ICQ) that he will evntually do it. But we can't do anything about that until he really does (except that bugging him about it constantly ;-)
As for charts for years are concerned. I like the idea. That's actually an improvement. I'm sure stuff released in a specific year could be put into some chart according to type and votes.
You mean those rules? (No votes for yourself. No votes for your own productions. No votes for your group(s). No votes for your group productions. No votes for your group members.) - yes that shoud be possible to implement but that would require the user-account to be linked to the scener profile (as Groepaz suggested).. That's actually quite nice idea. We should require user account to be linked to scener profile in order to be able to vote..
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All-time charts are IMO kinda problematic to implement in the live-database with diverse ammount votes per item. There can be some "select" and "result rank" for that, but I don't think it could be taken too seriously when ammount of votes mostly depends on curent popularity of groups. For serious effort on All Time charts that could require separate system with clearly identifiable non-anonymous voters (e-mail confirmation of vote from real scener e-mail address). Still that reminds me of varous popular TV contests like "hit of the century" where people for popular favorite songs. The credibility of the resulting rank is highly subjective. That's why I think current system is the best we can get.
I had ideas of counting the ammount of votes, and other factors into account, but that would require to recode the ranking system completely.
And if we take it even further. The year of establishment, ammount of releases (points awared depending on type of release), release achievement, life-span of group and other parameters should be taken into account when deciding the serious ranks. Some of this data could be dug out of this database separatedly, but to get the resulting rank would probably require hours/days of computer calculation.
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Dishy
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 241 |
CSDb has been online since 2001 now... Somehow, I think it would be a pity, if we remove/reset the votes, which CSDb has got from the masses for about 7 years! Of course the downvote problem should - and will - be solved. BUT - if we just remove all votes in here now, so all users should vote yet again, then I actually fear that the charts/votes could probably appear in a wrong direction! Right now the results of all votes are reflected over 6-7 years, where also many old sceners have been online here to leave their very stamp/vote for groups, productions, persons from their respective scene days, as they remember it. By now some groups, productions and persons have got more than 100 votes from a broad spectrum of people. Also lots of CSDb-users have now voted for more than 200-300 releases etc.
I´m not sure at all, if the charts in here would be more fair, if we should vote all over again, and I think, we´d miss many of the votes from old c64 sceners, who´re not much online at CSDb anymore.
IMO, it could be a big mistake to reset the votes!
Regards,
Rolf/Dishy
*****Once A Scener - Always A Scener***** |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
Perff: how hard is it to remove the anonymous feature?
This in itself is a problem, only one admin for an active database. |
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