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Forums > CSDb Info > Release standards for cracks in CSDb
2008-08-01 15:59
Perff
Administrator

Posts: 1677
Release standards for cracks in CSDb

There have been made some new rules about what types of cracks we allow to be added to CSDb. (See the reason in the Preamble section below)
To begin with we post the rules here, but they will soon be includes in the general rules page.
CSDb release standards for cracks
---------------------------------

The following rules were collected and assembled by the CSDb staff, with help
and acknowledgement of a few people which represent the active cracking scene
of today and/or have profound knowledge of the cracking scene of the past:

 - The Ignorance (Nostalgia)
 - Jazzcat (Onslaught)
 - Burglar (SCS*TRC)
 - Jihad (Hitmen)
 - Widdy (Genesis*Project)
 - Ian Coog (Hokuto Force)
 - Taper (Triad)

Preamble:
---------

In the past CSDb always tried to keep the philosophy "we shall not judge
release quality" and we relied on the self-awareness of our users to do just
that. However, the recent months showed us that this approach doesn't work
anymore for the cracking scene. Since there is no more "authority" (such as
countless disk mags in the past) that reviews and ranks cracks, which is
somewhat fundamental for the competitive nature of the cracking scene, more
and more sub standard releases surfaced, some of which we do not consider
scene releases at all anymore. And our users started to question wether all
and everything is considered a scene release these days, and demanded us
to put an end to all the flaming and crap releases.

So these rules were designed, loosely related to the old firstrelease rules
(which were valid for almost 3 decades) with some more stuff added, and some
other stuff changed to reflect the nature of CSDb (for example we do NOT only
consider actual firstreleases, nor do we keep out "fake" releases per se). In
some ways our rules are a lot less restrictive, and in other ways we demand
more. However we tried to make sure that stuff that we think is "ok" does not
clash with these rules, and that they aren't terribly unfair to newcomers
either.

We didn't design these rules to discriminate against newbies (or anyone else),
but instead we think that rules like this are a necessary element in the
learning process of every cracker.

Goals:
------

- Motivate people to do more quality cracks. Quantity is nothing, quality is
  all.
- More tension in the cracking scene.
- Reward skill and effort
- The best cracker should win. not the loudest, not the most annoying, not
  the most persistant.
- Getting rid of rerereleases, 100%,101%,102% versions and similar nonsense.
- Motivate crackers to release games that were never released before and make
  better versions than anyone before

And last but not least:
- Motivate people to upload more old cracks

General Rules:
--------------

- These rules are only valid for cracks (by our definition) released after
  1/8-2008. whatever was released before must only comply with the old rules.
  However, all old rules also apply to new cracks, with the following
  additions and changes:

- Definition of a crack:

 Until now a crack was loosely defined as "unauthorized modification" of a
 program. these standards extend the definition as follows:

 - A crack MUST be preceded by a crack intro, with the only exception of
   tools, which most people prefer without intros.
 - "frozen" games are NOT considered cracks.
 - The crack MUST have substantial value over the original. linking
   your intro infront of some freeware game aint cut it. We atleast expect
   decent training and packing. If a game was released before, subsequent
   releases must have substantial value over previous releases.
 - The appearance of the game must NOT be altered in any way. No changing of
   ingame texts into your groups name, no altering of the hiscore tables.
   Altered hiscore tables are acceptable if the game has an option to restore
   the original content.
 - If the game has a hiscore table, we expect a hiscore saver. Hiscore savers
   MUST be disabled when trainers are active.
 - If there are docs available (which we might check on the net) then we
   expect them to be included.
 - Cracks should be pal/ntsc fixed, unless the game itself does not allow it.
   Obviously, when the crack is pal/ntsc fixed then the intro MUST be fixed
   too. Please notice that there is a strong emphasis on "should be fixed",
   and games which are trivial to fix (such as many "oldies") MUST be fixed.
   Also notice that unlike the traditional firstrelease rules, we demand *all*
   cracks to comply with this rule, including previews and the like.
 - Ingame text MUST be translated to english, with the only exception beeing
   games which contain huge amounts of text. (such as adventures)

- Any crack added to CSDb must be a valid release according to these rules.
  Whatever else will get deleted. "Oldschoolers" please notice that we do
  NOT make a difference between "full" releases and "previews" etc as it is/
  was commonly done in the firstrelease scene. We think that these days every
  release deserves the same effort, preview or not.

- So called "recracking" is generally and strongly frowned upon. For this
  reason each crack should somehow tell what kind of original was used (tape/
  disk/cart ...). Recracks are only accepted if no original is available and
  all existing cracks have bugs. (If in doubt, search harder for an original
  or crack a different game.) In this case the release MUST state what other
  crack was used. Credit where credit is due!
  Notice that this rule was the most objected one by our reviewers, who most
  of the time would like to see recracks completely banned. However, we don't
  want to do that (yet) - but to stress it again: recracks should be a rare
  exception!

- If a crack is accepted at atleast two of the following sites, which have
  been "official" release sites for atleast a decade, it will always be
  counted as a valid release on CSDb:

   The Digital Dungeon - ftp://ftp.scs-trc.net/pub/c64/
   Banana Republic - ftp://ftp.elysium.pl/
   Antidote - antidote.hopto.org:23 (telnet BBS)

  Note that uploading alone doesn't count, the release must be accepted by
  the particular site and be moved out of incoming for everyone to download.
  You also must point out yourself wether a release is available at the above
  mentioned sites since the CSDb staff will not actively (or regularly) check
  them.

  This is an intentional "loophole" in these rules. if those sites accept
  a release, then we must consider it beeing a valid scene release, no matter
  what our own rules say. (Keep in mind though, that those sites by themselves
  have rather strict rules on what they accept and what not)

- Games made with game makers such as SEUCK (Shoot Em Up Construction Kit),
  GAC (Graphic Adventure Creator), RDK (Racing Destruction Kit), etc. are NOT
  considered valid releases.

- Games that are written primarily in basic will NOT be considered a valid
  release, unless significant effort has been put into it, such as translating
  huge amount of text. Classic commercial titles such as "pirates!" are an
  exception to this rule, while most magazine type-ins are not. if in doubt,
  WE decide.

- Generally every group can only release ONE version of a certain release.
  further updates are prohibited and will get deleted (see exceptions below).

The 48 hour rule:
-----------------

- After releasing a game, group A has 48 hours to release a possibly updated
  and/or fixed version of the same release, and during this period is also
  allowed to "silently" update its CSDb entry. Any updates after these 48h are
  prohibited and will get deleted and the original file restored. Please notice
  that this opportunity is meant for trivial fixes, such as a wrong filename, a
  typo in a scroller etc, NOT for uploading improved versions (like additional
  trainers). Also notice that if we notice that this rule will get abused we will
  remove it completely. As a countermeasure every time a "silent" update is made
  it must be stated in the comments, and explain what was changed.

- If a second group B releases a better version within 48h, it will "steal" the release
  from group A who originally added it and the previous version from group A will
  get deleted. then the clock will get restarted for group B

- If during these 48h someone is able to point out an older release of the same
  game (which must exist in CSDb, so an entry must have been created and the release
  must have been uploaded) which is better than the version that was just released,
  the new version will get deleted.

- If within 48h anyone can prove that a release is a recrack, although the release
  itself doesnt say so, the release in question will get deleted.

- If group C releases an even better version AFTER the 48h expired, it will NOT
  "steal" the previous release, and both versions will stay.

How we judge if a release is "better" than another:
---------------------------------------------------

- Onefiling. We expect cracks to be one in one file if it is possible.
- Size. Good packing is expected (that includes levelpacking multiload releases)
- Generally releases should work on a stock C64 with 1541 drive, everything else
  is a bonus.
- The size of the main file should not exceed 202 blocks so it can be loaded
  by stock kernal load.
- Filecopyable. track/sector loaders should be replaced so the crack can be
  copied file by file.
- Amount of trainers. notice that so called "double trainers" will make your
  release worse, not better. Every double trainer will DECREASE the number of
  trainers we will count for your release. (so a release with "+2" as in "in-
  finite lives player 1" and "infinite lives player 2" will not only be counted
  as "+1", but instead be counted as if it had no trainer at all)
- Translation to english. Translating lots of text is a huge effort which will
  always earn you a big plus. If there is only a little bit of text, such as a
  score display and "get ready" stuff, then a translation is EXPECTED.
- Bugs. Bugs that exist in the crack but which do not exist in the original
  will earn you a big minus. On the other hand, fixing bugs which are in the
  original will give you a plus.
- Releases made from a real original will always count more than recracks,
  obviously.

Strategy Guide:
---------------

For those who are new to the cracking scene, here are some hints:

- Before you start with a crack, check what other versions of that game
  exist. Don't crack it if you dont think you can make it better than all the
  old versions. Do not rely only on CSDb for reference wether something has
  already been released. There are a lot of games which have been released
  that are not added to CSDb yet. Some sites you may want to check are:

   The Digital Dungeon - ftp://ftp.scs-trc.net/pub/c64/
   Banana Republic - ftp://ftp.elysium.pl/
   Antidote - antidote.hopto.org:23 (telnet BBS)
   Gamebase - http://www.gamebase64.com
   C64Games - http://c64games.de
   The List - http://www.atlantis-prophecy.org/onslaught/thelist.html

- Use the original game (many are available for download on the net).
  Recracking is generally frowned upon. Generally only consider extending or
  fixing someone else's crack when no original can be found and existing cracks
  all have flaws. And even then, maybe still find another game.
- Spend time on testing your release. Typically that would be considerably
  more time that it took to make the actual crack. You are in no hurry, so
  make sure everything works correctly.
- If you are into competition, wait until some group releases a game, and
  then try to make a better version.
- If you want to make a first release, try to make it the best version ever,
  so no other group will be able to beat you in 48h

Final Words:
------------

These rules will get updated and finetuned over time, especially when we see
that someone is trying to exploit them and find loopholes. Please realise that
WE have the final word, and that WE decide wether a certain exception on the
current rules will be made or not. if in doubt, choose a different release
platform than CSDb.

Last not least, nitpicking on the wording and interpretation is not tolerated.
If in doubt, ask and we might update the rules to make more clear what we
mean.
 
... 131 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....
 
2008-08-04 14:54
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352
Quote:

*LOL* Groepaz, where did I say I don't like that rules. Please read my other posts,


yes i got that. it was more of a general statement :)

Quote:

Like I thought CSDb is about preserving C64 history... but it seems I got wrong. So I've just learned another thing. =)


csdb is about preserving the history of the c64 SCENE. it is _not_ (knowing some people i repeat: _NOT_) about preserving the history of all and everything c64 related.

and obviously when we don't want to preserve everything, we have to define what we want and what we dont want.

2008-08-04 14:57
Marauder/GSS
Account closed

Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 224
Quote:

....
And btw. there is even a rule how to name a release, since 20 years.

So improve yourself and start to learn, 2 years are long enough to do.


and yes I know about the rules of naming a release, I was at the Danish Gold party in 1987 and you? (c;

like I've said and repeat again... I thought CSDb was about to preserve history...

[edit] so CSDb doesn't want to preserve everything, ok I understand now...
2008-08-04 15:22
CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3048
Quote:
that said, we don't even really consider csdb a release site - one of the ideas was to completely forbid adding releases which aren't atleast <some reasonable time> old and require people to release stuff on real release sites instead of csdb (such as those mentioned in the above rules). however, since we don't want that, we needed to adjust to the fact that people are (ab)using csdb as a release site (in many cases, the _primary_ and _only_ one, which is kindof sad), and so we needed those rules (like any other release site).


Exactly.
2008-08-04 15:55
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352
Quote:

so CSDb doesn't want to preserve everything, ok I understand now...


if people would atleast read the introduction: http://noname.c64.org/csdb/help.php?section=intro (first paragraph, third paragraph)

or maybe even the more detailed rules: http://noname.c64.org/csdb/help.php?section=rules (V.2 V.8 V.9 V.10)

so no, csdb doesn't want to preserve everything. (also please notice that our definition of what belongs to the scene - and thus here - is already a _lot_ less restrictive and forgiving than what many sceners would want it to be)
2008-08-06 08:56
Fungus

Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680
I am in no group anymore and I like these rules =]

They are not much different then they always were.

To the whiners, can't take the heat, get the F*** outta the fire...

Cheers!

2008-08-06 15:38
Skate

Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 494
I'm not a cracker (at least for 15+ years). So these rules have nothing to do with me. I hate lame cracks just flooding CSDb as well. But there are two points which I don't agree with.

1) Cracks should be pal/ntsc fixed, unless the game itself does not allow it.

You cannot force all crackers to find out NTSC bugs of emulators (like I did recently when I was trying to make a side-border effect which works both on PAL/NTSC) just like you cannot expect from them to find the real hardware. Some games might be easy to fix but you cannot create a rule like this IMHO.

2) If a second group B releases a better version within 48h, it will "steal" the release from group A who originally added it and the previous version from group A will get deleted. then the clock will get restarted for group B

C'mon! CSDb != Scene I know but CSDb is not a compo place either. If you want to see competition, open a new site for that. Deleting the previous release of Group A after many people already downloaded that release? Were you drunk or something?
2008-08-06 16:05
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352
Quote:

You cannot force all crackers to find out NTSC bugs of emulators (like I did recently when I was trying to make a side-border effect which works both on PAL/NTSC) just like you cannot expect from them to find the real hardware. Some games might be easy to fix but you cannot create a rule like this IMHO.


thats why it says "should" not "must". fixing is only expected if its trivial (like changing some values on a d012 compare), and that can be done easily in any emu :) (i'd say, pretty much everything released the last couple of months would have been trivial to fix, or wouldn't need a fix at all).

oh and any serious cracker group should have access to real ntsc equipment for over a decade :) and if not, it's easy enough, and doesnt cost a fortune either =)

Quote:

2) If a second group B releases a better version within 48h, it will "steal" the release from group A who originally added it and the previous version from group A will get deleted. then the clock will get restarted for group B

C'mon! CSDb != Scene I know but CSDb is not a compo place either. If you want to see competition, open a new site for that. Deleting the previous release of Group A after many people already downloaded that release? Were you drunk or something?


you got the point quite well, "CSDb is not a compo place". ie, csdb is not a release site. and thats exactly why these rules have been established. you can always put your stuff out elsewhere (ie on a release site) and then ignore most (if not all) of these rules. (and dont forget that most release sites infact have similar rules)

the alternative to these rules would have been to keep the competition outta here completely - ie not allow adding anything that isnt at least <some time> old, and only add to csdb what manages to stand the test of time.

2008-08-07 14:01
Stainless Steel

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966
Quoting Groepaz
ofcourse, like every release site we make our own rules, no more no less
contradicts

Quoting groepaz
csdb is not a release site.

(Going a bit offtopic now)

And all this "CSDb" is not the scene ranting. Spare it, please.


Yeah well, maybe there is some "Scene" going on up in the hills of some distant country.
But for as far as I'm concerned, CSDb plays a very central role to what I percieve as the "Scene".

In the past, I have always "released" my stuff here. May that be sad or not. And I'm sure plenty of other people do that just as well. Hell, I wouldn't even know where to upload my shit if it wasn't for CSDb.

Sure, go ahead and call me all sorts of names for not "knowing" all the secret hideouts of todays "scene".

CSDb was the first thing I found when looking for the "scene" a couple of years ago, and so it remains my central point when it comes to that.

Not that my opinion counts though.

Party on dudes.
2008-08-07 14:15
TWR
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 187
the overkiller wrote:

Warlok +4 (and you accuse others for recracking!)

and I reply:
First of all...Take a look at: Shamus Case II +
Pretty much the same deal in the release you point out, with the difference that I credited the crackers right from the start. You did that AFTER my comment.
Second: I don't accuse others for re-cracking! I accuse YOU for re-cracking.
Third: And your shit about "this was released 4 years ago..." 2004...2008... same crap, if you ask me. (or carp, or what ever you call it...)
2008-08-07 15:29
The Overkiller
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 342
Quote: the overkiller wrote:

Warlok +4 (and you accuse others for recracking!)

and I reply:
First of all...Take a look at: Shamus Case II +
Pretty much the same deal in the release you point out, with the difference that I credited the crackers right from the start. You did that AFTER my comment.
Second: I don't accuse others for re-cracking! I accuse YOU for re-cracking.
Third: And your shit about "this was released 4 years ago..." 2004...2008... same crap, if you ask me. (or carp, or what ever you call it...)


First: the credits were in the intro, so what???
Second: do it, then tell it to your mates too. And you said also The Ignorance is a recracker , lol !!!!
Third: yes, and I quitted it. Sadly you still goes on.
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