| | Celtic
Administrator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 807 |
tagging your logos and pictures.
Well, i was wondering about something lately, why does everyone need to put a tag (label, his her name, whatever) inside or next to their pictures and logos.
To me nowadays (i used to do it back in the day) it seems inproper and unstyled, often making a picture looking unbalanced or sometimes even ugly. i was just wondering what you thoughts on this were.
celtic |
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| | jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
This discussion got ridiculous many posts ago, here is a little bite to make it even more. :) Just to annoy PaterPi who got bored of reading this way too long discussion about the plain nothing ;))
(a usual busy day at #c-64)
[02:44] <Stryyker> god reason why tagging logos is acceptable if the gfxer wants to do it I'd say
[02:47] <jailbird_> why NOT TO tag? i can't see the reason. it's your work, so you tag it.
[02:48] <Stryyker> I tag music :)
[02:50] <jailbird_> well, there is also some kind of tag in zaks, right? i mean when you list the memory of a music, you mostly see who has done it
[02:50] <Stryyker> yep
[02:51] <jailbird_> so a picture/logo without a tag would be like a music without knowing who composed it or an effect without knowing who programmed it |
| | TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: This discussion got ridiculous many posts ago, here is a little bite to make it even more. :) Just to annoy PaterPi who got bored of reading this way too long discussion about the plain nothing ;))
(a usual busy day at #c-64)
[02:44] <Stryyker> god reason why tagging logos is acceptable if the gfxer wants to do it I'd say
[02:47] <jailbird_> why NOT TO tag? i can't see the reason. it's your work, so you tag it.
[02:48] <Stryyker> I tag music :)
[02:50] <jailbird_> well, there is also some kind of tag in zaks, right? i mean when you list the memory of a music, you mostly see who has done it
[02:50] <Stryyker> yep
[02:51] <jailbird_> so a picture/logo without a tag would be like a music without knowing who composed it or an effect without knowing who programmed it
And ofcourse you're comparing apples with pears here, since the 'tagging' of music is invisible, unlike that of logos.
's funny what people tend to come up with to make their point :) |
| | jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Ok, tagging musics is probably not hurting anyone aestethic feelings, so noone cares if a music is tagged or not. Still most of musicians keep tagging their musics because it's the only way of signing their work.
There are some examples of coders leaving their handles in the memory, so they're also tagging (not too often, but they are).
The only way of a graphician making clear that the logo/picture is his work, is leaving his handle or it's acronym on the screen. As long is it done with style and it's nice and/or small, you souldn't care, really. Reasons against leaving signs, like "tagging going out of fashion" or "it looks unstyled", all the more, "it's unprofessional" are just stupid. Example: just look at the graffity-scene (i'm comparing it to the c64 pixel-scene - which is quite similar to it, except the illegal part, - and not the whole c64 scene, just to make it clear). |
| | TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
The reasons why musicians 'tag' their work is quite simple: the chance that their tune will be re-used is rather big (at least, if they're any good). For both code & graphics, this is not the case (unless you consider ripping).
Also, not too many people are going to check the memory to see who did the music, if they're interested they're going to look for the credits, same place where they can find out who coded the part and who made that ugly logo. So why should the graphician have his handle on the screen there all the time, while the other people who did do as much work don't? What makes the graphician so fucking important? Aren't demos meant to be team-efforts most of the time (unless your name is Dane)?
You can't say that claiming "tagging is unstylish" is stupid, because for some people it is, style is very much a subjective matter.
Final point: the graffiti scene. First of all, most of those pieces are ugly (like most logos) so I don't care if they're tagged or not (like most logos). Second: if they're tagged, most of the time the size of the tag is very small compared to the size of the piece. If you tag a logo, the proportions are quite different, meaning the tag has a much bigger effect on the overall picture (pun intended).
Now, let me once again make clear: I don't care if you tag your logo or not, I only care if somebody I work with tags their logo and/or work, and if it interferes with the total product. |
| | Puterman
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 188 |
Quote: And ofcourse you're comparing apples with pears here, since the 'tagging' of music is invisible, unlike that of logos.
's funny what people tend to come up with to make their point :)
If, on the other hand, you'd "tag" your tune by adding a digi with your name, it'd be similar to tagging pictures. Or if you'd add your name to the screen in every part you code. I don't think the first idea has been used, but the second one has, to some extent (see Embryo/Padua). |
| | hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 474 |
yep, embryo is probably the best example of why the coder should keep his ego in control.
as for grafitti, most of the work i've seen consists of nothing but a big tag. the other pieces are tagged, but i guess thats because its hard to make upscrollers with credits using nothing but paint on a wall.
if the gfx:ans wants to tag their logos, just draw the tag in black. demos that got logos probably got black background throughout the demo aswell
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| | jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Hmm, after all, is tagging graphics on computers somehow connected to real-life art?
Btw, I've concluded. No, of course not, I'm just kidding... :)
1. If someone tags a logo, means that he could seem much more important than everyone else he is working with on a certain project/demopart/whatever. Gosh TDJ, I can't believe you're serious. DeeKay is much more important than Crossbow just because he tagged his logos in..., whatever, some Crest demo, and Valsary is much important than HCL, Brush or Shogoon.
Strange, I've never realised, I was never warned about that. Sure, if the coders or the musicians feel inferior becasue of my 5x5 pixel huge JB tag on the screen, from now on I won't sign my pictures. Actually it makes sense... It became kind of a tradition on c64, and scene-tradition is a thorn in the flesh of some. But yes, it could be that some people may feel neglected by seeing the graphician's acronym on the screen while their's isn't. We haven't seen too much posts from coders or musicians about their opinion on the topic. As far as I am concerned, I'd be very interested.
2. The tag is disturbing the overall look.
In some cases I must agree. Especially when it comes to Focus demos. And my intentions are not to disagree with everything TDJ states here (because he seems to be under the influence of that). Look at SNN/Padua, where I was pretty sure that a tag will look weird on the fire-part graphics, same goes for the logo in the VN#38 intro. I still don't get it how will, f. e. my Civitas logo (http://www.suonline.net/~arnoldc/civitas.gif) turn one of Puterman's demos inside-out, just because there is a tag on it? Or if we get back to point one, and if it is hard to get over a tag on the screen, I'll remove it, as long it's the only problem why noone used up this logo till now (or it's just ugly, it might be the case, it is still better than any Civitas logo i've seen, with all my respect to fellow designers and graphicans in the group, however it doesn't seems that there are any).
3. Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't "reusing" musics, errm, a bit lame? Is that for sure the main reason of tagging musics? Even if someone puts a ripped music into a demo, I believe he'll list the credits somewhere. Or won't credit the musician, but that's pure lameness.
Visible or "invisible"? It's either tagging.
4. As I get it, for some, tagging is *all in all* unstylish? "Tags are unstylish" is a stupid opinion as long the reason isn't explained to me by one scener of those. Are we talking about the style of the logos here ("sickened by the tag"), the style of the demos (to be specific, some screens in the demo) using tagged logos, or just the tags?
5. We are mostly discussing about the logos, and what about the pictures? The same?
6. Speaking of credits, do anyone of you, non-Crest members, know the exact credits of Krestology? I often hear something like "all the graphics were done by DeeKay". Sure. :) Now do you see the power of tags! ;))
Yeah-yeah, Puterman, I got your point. :) However, I'd never mind a digivoice or the coder's nick as a sprite, whilst my logo shown "un-tagged" on the same screen. ;)
Oh, and by the way. A bit offtopic. The "ugly" graffity logos are called "bombs", they're mostly not signed because they're made very fastly (usually in two colours), on trains, railways, even buses or public places. There could be tags beside them, again done very quickly, nevertheless when the artist bombs his own nickname, it's pointless to tag it. Signing and tagging aren't really the same on the graffity scene. Tags are those weird shapes and marks you see everywhere on the streets, not neccesarily made by a graffity artist, yet also by 14 years old kids imitating the writings from the walls. You take care a bit more about representing your "tag" when spraying "real", huge, beautiful graffities (f. e. Crew Logos), which are mostly done without hurry, by a sketch, using many colours. They're ALWAYS tagged (well, as long if the artist(s) don't gets disturbed before finishing the piece). From my personal experience, I'd say that the tag<=>graffity proportions are quite like the same as on C64. I rarely see extra huge tags on c64. E. g. V for Valsary, P for Poison, QPD for Cupid or JB or J. for me. How much will these tiny shits affect to the logo or the screen's ballance, please?
Heh, and I'm very glad to meet the first person below the age of 50, while not beeing a police-fag or a house painter, disliking graffity art. ;) |
| | Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Tagging is for credits, right? If you like a logo/picture, you'll eventually read the upscroll/note/creditspart to find out who did it, I suspect, thus making a visible tag quite unneccesary.
Yes, to tag or not is a question of tradition, as well as style. When I started out pixeling most people did, and so I tagged my stuff as well. Nowadays I don't, simply because I trust credits elsewhere to name me as responsible for the graphics.
When packing music made in the JCH-player (and seceral other music programs) you get the option to add credits or comment in the packed tune. I used to think this was quite funny, to add a fitting one-liner matching the title of the tune. The thing is, however, that I'm most often credited elsewhere when my music is used - I hope - which also makes this a bit unneccessary. (32 bytes, man!)
So I suppose what I'm getting at is that I can't really see the point of tagging any longer, as I've now come to expect more detailed credits in releases.
But that's just me. |
| | jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
I agree with you Dane. If there are complete credits beside the release, it's not really necessary to add tags, I believe we got accostumed to sign logos, just as copying other's works. But, as there is no rule against copies, neither there will be against tagging, even if some would really like that. Gotta move on in a positive way, sure. So God bless the noters, so specific to our scene!
What made my ass itchy were those points above, in my previous post. I am not saying tag is a must, just can't believe that some people are connecting tagging with style, superiority, proportions, fashion, professionality or whatsoever.
However, Dane, you're in a special situation by being in Crest and making your own demos, don't forget that. Musicians will now, _at least_, always get the credits by HVSC. While, when there are 4-5 graphicians working on a huge project, it's very possible that the person watching the demo won't be able or just won't connect the artist and the picture/logo only by reading the credits in the upscroll or the note (define it by lazyness, not caring about the complete credits, or just stupidity/ignorance). Mixing up the graphicians, that's hundreds of times noticed in reviews. And it is quite dissapointing when someone is writing/talking about your work but crediting another graphician.
Oh, btw, we were working together with Lubber in Embryo, and I think noone in Padua got offended by the coder's "uncontrolled ego". All the more as I know Lubber as a very kind, nice, modest and humble person. |
| | TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Jailbird, I'm not going to continue this discussion, as it seems you misinterpret most of my statements. Also, you draw conclusions bases on absolutely nothing. As for graffiti: I think I know enough about the subject, as it's a big part of the hip-hop subculture, and I've been wandering around in that for quite a long time too. Some graffiti is really beautiful, most of it is really ugly. Just like logos. |
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