[CSDb] - User Forums - Implement http://ftp.pokefinder.org/ into CSDb

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Forums > CSDb Feedback > Implement http://ftp.pokefinder.org/ into CSDb

2005-10-25 00:56

Nafcom

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588

Implement http://ftp.pokefinder.org/ into CSDb

Implement http://ftp.pokefinder.org/ into CSDb for alternative download link search!
Opinions?

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2005-11-06 00:16

Seven

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202

@nafcom:

So files uploaded to CSDb will never get lost, because there's one person in the world who has a backup.
If you have the time, please come up with an explanation how that is safe and redundant.

... or better yet, next time think before you post. I'm still waiting for even a vague hint that you actually understood what we're talking about.

2005-11-06 02:36

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

Quote: he.
I already did that - removing non alphnumeric characters if you havn't noticed. (Perhaps not all of them - had a small problem making a simple php-routine that removes all non alphanumeric chars, but not special letters like æøåôêá and what different contries have thought up. Anyone got a 100% idiot-proff thing to do that?)

I could just see where it was going. Removing simple chars is one thing. Next search for special abrivations and remove them or convert them. Also look for other words like preview, fix etc. and do stuff to them too. The next post would probably have sounded a bit like "Make a routine that understands the meaning of the title, and make a smart search from that understanding." ;)

.. or perhaps it's just me who is lazy.. hmm.. :):)

The funny thing is: you're describing one of the biggest problems at the project I'm currently working on (not for c64, but for my jon). I work at a directory service (biggest one in Holland, actually we're related to TDC which should be known to Scandinavian people as well), and there it's very important to somehow transform the user input into a query which will give just the right type of results. For that we use many different techniques, like synonyms, stopwords but also fuzzy search logic etcetera. Some of this we do ourself, for other parts of this system we use the expertise of an American partner.

So based on experience I can tell you: you've got your work cut out for you ;) The bright side is ofcourse that your quest is a lot easier than ours :)

2005-11-06 09:15

Nafcom

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588

Quote: @nafcom:

So files uploaded to CSDb will never get lost, because there's one person in the world who has a backup.
If you have the time, please come up with an explanation how that is safe and redundant.

... or better yet, next time think before you post. I'm still waiting for even a vague hint that you actually understood what we're talking about.

I don't see a reason why not to trust Perff here

2005-11-06 10:08

tlr

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790

Quote: Why is that a reason to upload files to CSDb?
The only thing that show is that, if you want an FTP server to host the files, choose a reliable one.

You don't get it, do you? Doing a backup of an FTP site is the easiest you can get.. provided you have an FTP client and don't try downloading file by file with your Internet Exploder. And that way _anybody_ can make a backup, and not just Perff.

Why do I sometimes get the feeling that I'm talking to walls in here... 8r

@seven: I agree with your point. It would be great to have external backups.
Something might, god forbid, happen to the backups that Perff keeps for instance...
What I don't agree with is how it should be done.
I would find it a bit tedious (and probably others with me) to upload the files to one place (several), then add the entries to another, and add a link to the first. The result would probably be exacly what it is today: some upload to the ftp-servers, and some upload here.

What I have suggested in a previous post is a mirror by exporting all files from csdb to multiple ftp-servers.
I would also like to see the full database mirrored (read-only ofcourse). This could be in the form of database dump in a tar-archive, just so the information won't get lost. Somebody could put up a mirror site later.

Obviously there are a lot of conflicting opinions about this, and Perff is the one who has to implement it, so
it's his call. But I think this would solve many of the problems/risks discussed here.

2005-11-06 10:50

Seven

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202

@nafcom: You still don't get it, do you? This is not about trust. This is about safety and redundancy, and neither is accomplished by a single person with a backup, no matter how much you trust that person.

@tlr: Perff already said he wouldn't mind exporting the files for an FTP to host them, so I think that's the least of the problems.

The bigger problem will be a copy of the database, especially after the MacGyver incident showed that there's a lot of trust issues to be taken into consideration. How much of the functionality should be left intact with the copy, how much of the database has to be copied for that, and does that include user account information, passwords and (hidden) voting information?

I think there's a lot of work to be done for a "safe" copy of CSDb and even if Perff can be talked into doing that work, I wouldn't count on it anytime soon.

2005-11-06 11:28

Nafcom

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588

Quote: @nafcom: You still don't get it, do you? This is not about trust. This is about safety and redundancy, and neither is accomplished by a single person with a backup, no matter how much you trust that person.

@tlr: Perff already said he wouldn't mind exporting the files for an FTP to host them, so I think that's the least of the problems.

The bigger problem will be a copy of the database, especially after the MacGyver incident showed that there's a lot of trust issues to be taken into consideration. How much of the functionality should be left intact with the copy, how much of the database has to be copied for that, and does that include user account information, passwords and (hidden) voting information?

I think there's a lot of work to be done for a "safe" copy of CSDb and even if Perff can be talked into doing that work, I wouldn't count on it anytime soon.

No, you just take stuff too personal and too agressive. Cool down.

2005-11-06 11:50

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

Okay, let me add a few more cents (..) to this discussion then. I think there's a bigger 'problem' here: CSDB has become too popular for its own good and is in danger of colapsing under its own weight. Perff & co do a fantastic job, came up with a cool idea and actually realised it (which is more than I can say of my own ideas).

However, Perff, as he himself has stated several times, is not a professional software-architect. Hence, there have been problems with trying to make this into something it was never meant to be. One way of handling that is by doing what's done right now: whenever a new problem or situation arises, some kind of hack is performed. Most of the times this works (because Perff is quite talented I might add) but in the long run it will cause new problems.

The best solution would be to simple release a new version, build from the ground up. Perff doesn't have to do that by himself: many of us do this stuff for a living and could help him with it. We have database experts, usability experts, search engine experts in our midst. It would also be very important to actually think things over before implementing them, to come up with a flexible system which at least is prepared to interact & be integrated with all the systems already out there that are worth interacting & integrating with (..). Ofcourse this would bring csdb into a whole new area, that of 'semi-professional' web-application, but I think it would be worth it.

By the way, even though yes, I am one of those professionals, I'm not claiming I should be the one to help him with it, I'm sure there are several others here who are just as qualified as I am. But if you need me Perff, just holla at me ;)

2005-11-06 13:32

iopop

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317

Why do I always have to agree with TDJ?

No, seriously, the idea is not bad at all and Ive been having the same idea in my mind for a few years. Especially when it comes to the Crack and "umbrella group" situation. Which if I understod correctly is impossible from a db perspective.

And yes, since I whine about it, Im ofcourse obligated to help.

2005-11-06 13:43

cba

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 935

Quote: Why do I always have to agree with TDJ?

No, seriously, the idea is not bad at all and Ive been having the same idea in my mind for a few years. Especially when it comes to the Crack and "umbrella group" situation. Which if I understod correctly is impossible from a db perspective.

And yes, since I whine about it, Im ofcourse obligated to help.

I also would fully support the idea to make a new CSDB,
And as TDJ already says, so many of us are able to help out
in one way or another.

Who is willing to make the first step?

Niels

2005-11-06 15:53

Nafcom

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 588

Quote: I also would fully support the idea to make a new CSDB,
And as TDJ already says, so many of us are able to help out
in one way or another.

Who is willing to make the first step?

Niels

Err... There is a CSDb version 2 planned, Perff asked several times in the forum for help, got no help. Funny that now people talk here now about a new CSDb! =)

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