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Bitbreaker
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 504 |
boobsploitation
So i never understood the fuzz about choosing boobs as a motif. Nude bodies have always been part of art. Also boobs are a thankful motif, as they keep one motivated to continue and finish a picture. Actually i adore and worship the female body. For me, nothing does feel wrong about that. But i somehow feel like there's a lot of mental masturbation going on. So feel free to bring your arguments against boobs forward. Maybe some nice drama will develop from that!
And yes, of course i'll continue drawing boobs, don't bother :-) |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quoting Deev...*most* C64 nudity is simply about lusting after breasts
...*most* C64 nudity was simply about lusting after breasts
The scene has matured a lot since the mid 90s, and except for some occasional cases - what you bring up is not an actual problem any more.
If we're talking about particular examples, then sure, sexism still exists on some level, but it's hardly determinative globally.
Quoting DeevI do also think that *because* the C64 scene does have such a high percentage of males, it would be good if it seemed more welcoming to women, rather than some kind of men only club where people get excited over 8 bit breasts.
Interesting. Most women I know check out and admittedly get excited when they see nice breasts or whatever body part they like on a photo/movie/piece of art, it's definitely not a male-only/scene-only phenomenon. People tend to react positively on things they appreciate. I strongly doubt that a few males painting and/or casually reacting excitedly to a seldom pair of 8bit boobs is an active/conscious act of sexism or the main reason why there are so few women on the (C64) scene. |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
Draw boobs of monsters or DON'T draw boobs at all... They are highly overrated... It's just in our nature to like boobs, as boobs=food when we're babies...
We can't be babies forever... goodnight :) |
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Deev
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206 |
Quote:In regards to respecting the feeling of others, what if someone would be disgusted at demo's featuring cute animals or cartoons all the time, Would the coder/designer of this demo have to respect the feelings and stop doing demo's like this?
People who dislike cute animals arent generally discriminated against in society. Its not WHAT the picture is of, but the attitude its reaffirming. I still havent had an answer from anyone as to why they WANT to produce things that make them look like a misoganist.
Quote:If we're talking about particular examples, then sure, sexism still exists on some level, but it's hardly determinative globally.
I would agree that it's much less of a problem, but if it exists at all, it still is a problem. Take a look as something like https://twitter.com/EverydaySexism (UK based, but similar attitudes exist elsewhere, Im sure). Yes, they arent complaining about not having the vote or not being allowed to work, but there are still quite clearly things happening that simply dont need to happen and I think thats true in the scene as well.
Quote:Interesting. Most women I know check out and admittedly get excited when they see nice breasts or whatever body part they like on a photo/movie/piece of art, it's definitely not a male-only/scene-only phenomenon. People tend to react positively on things they appreciate. I strongly doubt that a few males painting and/or casually reacting excitedly to a seldom pair of 8bit boobs is an active/conscious act of sexism or the main reason why there are so few women on the (C64) scene.
Sure, I dont think the tiny number of women in the scene is due to pixel porn, but the scene might appear a more welcoming place without it. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3047 |
Quoting Deev it would be good if it seemed more welcoming to women, rather than some kind of men only club where people get excited over lowres nipples.
Scene is dominated by men because there is general lack of interest between women in this department of human creativity. There is not much women musicians in the scene (if any) and I don't think it is because there is too much sex in our music.
If there was more disk-mags I'm suppose, there might be some women editors. Also maybe you could find some girls that would be able and willing to review C64 art if asked, but I don't think there is much chances they would get hooked on creating C64 stuff. |
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 705 |
Quoting Deev
Quote: People who dislike cute animals arent generally discriminated against in society. Its not WHAT the picture is of, but the attitude its reaffirming. I still havent had an answer from anyone as to why they WANT to produce things that make them look like a misoganist.
I don't personally see anything wrong with this. (If that makes me sexist / chauvinistic etc etc.. then so be it :-) ) But as I said before, each to their own.
People have their own individual motivation when creating demo's, pixelling gfx etc. It is what drives the person regardless of what other people think. |
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Deev
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206 |
Quote:Scene is dominated by men because there is general lack of interest between women in this department of human creativity. There is not much women musicians in the scene (if any) and I don't think it is because there is too much sex in our music.
If there was more disk-mags I'm suppose, there might be some women editors. Also maybe you could find some girls that would be able and willing to review C64 art if asked, but I don't think there is much chances they would get hooked on creating C64 stuff.
You don't need to find jobs for women to do!
Women producing 8 bit music (right off the top of my head, with no research):
http://chipzelmusic.bandcamp.com/
http://www.computeher.com/
https://soundcloud.com/mizkai
and umm....obvious one :) Mermaid (I know Mermaid's mostly known as a graphician, but she has done quite a bit of music!)
It's interesting that when you go to these chip music events, whist there are still more men in the audience and on stage, the split is definitely less extreme than in the demo scene.
I don't think the minuscule number of female sceners is all down to sexism, but I don't think it helps.
I would also add that it's not just women it might put off. If I wasn't already involved, and I was judging the C64 scene based on this thread, I would stay well clear.
I could ask a friend of mine who works in a fairly well known art gallery to review some popular C64 graphics, but I don't think some people would like what she said! :) (and again, it's by no means all about sexism). |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3047 |
Was talking about SID musicians. Not about girls using some accessible PC (or something) based tools. And yes Mermaid composed some musics, I apologise for forgetting that.
Quoting DeevIf I wasn't already involved and was judging the C64 scene based on this thread, I would stay well clear.
Based on *this* thread?
The funniest think about this thread is, that actually (almost) everyone involved can differentiate between true work art (your example, mermaids example, JB's example) and kitsch (your example, JB's example) with sexist undertones (motivations)), but argument about political correctness and morality of the theme continues.
You won. |
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Six
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 289 |
Quote: Quoting Groepaza much more interesting question to me is: why don't female artists do the same with men and penises?
Look at how Sixx is being exploited in this picture. For shame!
Suggesting that there's something wrong with depictions of women offering or desiring sex is to suggest that there's something wrong with women behaving as men do. Personally, I find that very sexist and offensive. It's to assume that a woman who is sexually agressive is somehow unclean. "Slut-shaming" is not feminism.
"Exploitation" suggests that someone is being portrayed in a negative manner, or being mistreated, or having some weakness of their own used to gain something from them.
Images that use male sexual urges to gain a response, whether they be of women, men, or sheep wearing lipstick, are exploitive of MEN, not the subjects of the imagery. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11350 |
Quote:The funniest think about this thread is, that actually (almost) everyone involved can differentiate between true work art (your example, mermaids example, JB's example) and kitsch (your example, JB's example) with sexist undertones (motivations)), but argument about political correctness and morality of the theme continues.
did you ever wonder why your local knitting club is dominated by women, or why the stamp collectors meeting has 99% males?
sexism helps?
i have this friend of mine who works at one of the most well known record shops in the country, want me to ask him to review some popular sid tunes? but you wont like what he'll say i tell ya :(
dangshaggajebus /o\ |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quoting DeevSure, I dont think the tiny number of women in the scene is due to pixel porn, but the scene might appear a more welcoming place without it.
The general isolationist mindset changed and then some of the important critical problems solved would help the scene to appear a more welcoming place in a loads greater value than fighting the rare and quite limited displays of sexism, which we won't be able to eradicate totally anyway, ever. People unfamiliar to the scene seeing pixelled boobs? They'd barely even scratch the surface of the shit laying around here. |
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