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mankeli
Registered: Oct 2010
Posts: 146 |
About the origins of c64 demoscene
It almost feels to me that C64 demoscene is somewhat younger than the Amiga demoscene. Would that be (historically) correct thing to say? Not by much, but kinda couple of years.
Many of the screens and effects often seen on C64 seem to have done earlier on the Amiga. (like 1986 vs. 1988) - This doesn't surprise me, since Copper makes raster programming so much more pleasant. But C64 setup was still a pretty usable in late 1980s, and much cheaper too, so I wonder if the C64 demoscene did start by trying to imitate stuff seen on Amiga? I mean just a random example of a 1986 Amiga intro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg96m76o7JA |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4732 |
The demo scene emanates from the cracking scene, and the crack intros, which is well known, with early examples on the Apple II. The C64 scene were prominent early on, though. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2980 |
Quoting hedningThe demo scene emanates from the cracking scene This is debateable, as it seems to imply that the demo scene spawned off from an existing fully-formed cracking scene.
What's more likely, in my book, however, is that there was no notion of two (or more) distinct scenes in the early days.
It was all just "the scene", with different people enthusiastic about home computing in general, dabbling in different domains and groups, with some "discipline overlap".
Only when things distinctly diversified in later years (mid-1980s-ish) was there a classification of the two scenes as we know them today.
What distorts this view to what i regard as a myth is that younger people coming in all the time over the years were attracted by the shiny crack intros of the games they played, to then discover the demo scene with their gameless intros etc. - mistaking the two scenes for parent and child rather than siblings. =)
You'll find many very hostile people over on Pouet, however, who adamantly insist on "cracking scene first, then demo scene". |
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Jetboy
Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 337 |
Quoting KrillWhat distorts this view to what i regard as a myth is that younger people coming in all the time over the years were attracted by the shiny crack intros of the games they played, to then discover the demo scene with their gameless intros etc.
That describes my story. Still, demo scene, and crack scene were greatly intermingled for a long time on c64 and seen as one.
CSDB is a proof it is still one scene as you see all kind of "productions" here. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Yeah, I’d definitely agree that it felt like one scene. Why else would demo coders gladly be members of groups also involved in cracking? I can remember a time when it seemed that everyone deep into the demoscene was declaring “no games please!” and such with their contacts. That’s about as disjoint as the two became at the time. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2980 |
Quoting RaistlinI can remember a time when it seemed that everyone deep into the demoscene was declaring “no games please!” and such with their contacts. That’s about as disjoint as the two became at the time. Wonder whether the "other side" also started to feel so strongly at some point.
Unfortunately, many artefacts of the olden days seem lost.
I'd like to have more hard proof that people at copy parties copied ALL the cool stuff they could get their hands on, and that this included stand-alone demos not linked with a cracked game (but possibly still on the same disk, together with a number of cracks). |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
"The demo scene emanates from the cracking scene."
@Krill:
Why do you seem to have such a burning desire to disprove this? What's the point? And even if there was a point, how would you do that? Disprove it? This has been retold by quite a number of personal experiences (mine included) and a few research papers.
BTW teenagers shouting profanities on conference calls made possible by US supplied cards was also quite a standard part of the scene. Does that bother you also? |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 728 |
Wow, that was a strong reaction :) |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
What drives me to conclusion that conventional wisdom repeated so many times represented by the sentence "The demo scene emanates from the cracking scene" is fully true, or anyway true enough from today's perspective that it doesn't really warrant further investigation efforts is this:
1) Outside of copyparties (decide for yourself why they were called COPYparties), the only channel of propagation for C64 demos was the SWAPPER NETWORK. In other words, a network of swappers had to be pre-established in order for demos to be spread. This network was established for swapping of cracks. In this regard, the description "The demo scene emanates from cracking scene" works perfectly.
2) Why do you think these copyparties were prominent in Denmark and especially in Netherlands and not so much in Germany (where the scene had the strongest numbers)? My guess is because of government crackdown on piracy. Which was prominent in Germany, but not in Netherlands. So what's closest to Germany but not under German government's jurisdiction? Aha. Is it so hard to imagine that even people who were never into cracking and only into demo making, still enjoyed the allure, the fame, the notoriety of being in cracker groups, being part of the subculture. That's the scene, and that's why when talking about the scene roots "The demo scene emanates from cracking scene" seems unquestionable to me.
Therefore, I can't think of a better explanation than "The demo scene emanates from cracking scene", and for the life of me cannot understand the urge, the need to disprove this. |
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AüMTRöN
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 44 |
Demo scene may well have come from cracking scene, but anyway...
Demo scene > cracking scene.
I'll get me coat. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
That escalated quickly |
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