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Sander
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 496 |
An update on ‘Pixel art in the C64 demoscene’
Dear fellow sceners,
In response to the comments we received, we’ve made some changes to the document.
Our goal was always to find common ground to maintain the fun and integrity of our hobby.
What this is not:
- It’s not written to limit anyone (only to encourage openness)
- It’s not aimed at specific individuals (it’s a scene wide practice)
Read the document here
We’d really love to hear your thoughts on this update.
Please post them in this thread, be kind and keep it constructive and on-topic please. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
good luck |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Quote: I'd still like to know how all this applies to gfx in demos. That's what spawned the wall of outcry afterall. You guys don't expect that "we" mention every single original artist, in case we convert whatever from the internet, do you?
Imagine you are making something like Batman demo. Everybody knows that you are acknowleding that it's about Batman so you aren't misattibuting anything and the inspiration is fully acknowledged and still I would expect that you at least try to include note or have it in final credits scroll. I know nobody thinks about it's importance, but look at it from the perspective of someone who wants to put your demo into national library of C64 art. Ok that's a long stretch.
Do you remember Electric speaking about making an exhibition of Finnish scene art and how they realized that due to the nature of selection of themes and sources, they had not much to choose from certain period (at least not without explanation). That's the problem. Either we start to accept that we aren't that isolated as we thought, or we still be just weirdos that can't be taken seriously.
Is it that hard ,after you make so beautiful and well polished production, to make a final "movie like" scroller with comnplete credits? That would not only look cool, but also give even more weight to the production. It's not that bad to think about c64 productions this way. In my opinion. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
I don't see the problem really. Demos are not for museums. And i don't care if general arts takes them seriously. Or anyone else really. (And i am sure a lot of sceners will agree)
THAT is the "problem" we are discussing here? Really? |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Quote: I don't see the problem really. Demos are not for museums. And i don't care if general arts takes them seriously. Or anyone else really. (And i am sure a lot of sceners will agree)
THAT is the "problem" we are discussing here? Really?
Attribution and acknowledgement from the point of view of art and culture. And such things. I'm sure lot of sceners will also agree that not giving credit, and converting is bad. When you discuss that separatedly it leads to nothing, because as you remember there was this old thread which was just afful.. because:
"We wanna be free to ride our machines without being hassled by The Man. And we wanna get loaded. And we wanna have a good time. And that's what we're gonna do."
But we aren't kids anymore. Some people take scene seriously and work with it as a plattform for their artistic expression, not just playground for reckless 40+ year old kids. And those people expressed their concern and laid out their ideas, and I sympathize with those ideas. It's not so hard to adopt them and it gives the whole scene credibility. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
That indeed seems to be what the "problem" boils down to. Some (and its some, not many) take this stuff way too serious. And then make a huge fuzz about it, when the others do not. And they even have the nerve to demand from others that they should play by their rules, and stop being their inner child.
I wonder who are the sad figures by now. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Quote: That indeed seems to be what the "problem" boils down to. Some (and its some, not many) take this stuff way too serious. And then make a huge fuzz about it, when the others do not. And they even have the nerve to demand from others that they should play by their rules, and stop being their inner child.
I wonder who are the sad figures by now.
Hm. Last time I checked (before they released v2), some, if if not all, of those sad figures were prominent C64 graphics artists and the list went like this. And I'm quite sure more of their fellows would sign up.
4gentE / Triad
Archmage / Andromeda / ENONE / Fossil / Shape
Danny / Lemon / TBL
Deev / Onslaught
Dr. TerrorZ
Duce / Extend
Electric / Extend
ibux / Artline Designs
Joe / Wrath Designs
Lobo / Atlantis
Mikael / Pretzel Logic
Ptoing / Funkentstört
Sander / Focus
SIT
Sulevi / Extend / Virtual Dreams
The Sarge /Fairlight and Bonzai
Twoflower / Triad
Vent / Extend
Veto / Oxyron
Worrior1 / Proxima / W1 Productions / Artline Designs
Any other idiotic questions? |
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Flotsam
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 84 |
Quote: That indeed seems to be what the "problem" boils down to. Some (and its some, not many) take this stuff way too serious. And then make a huge fuzz about it, when the others do not. And they even have the nerve to demand from others that they should play by their rules, and stop being their inner child.
I wonder who are the sad figures by now.
Doesn't matter to me if someone copies, takes inspiration, converts, whatnot. Doesn't matter if he/she is serious or not, but it's common decency to mention the source if you're heavily inspired by something or clearly lending visual / aural ideas from someone. Also, there's this: (altough, traditionally it's something that doesn't apply to scene stuff) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
If I grab a .png from internet, I don't save it as .jpg and claim it's mine. It's no different from saving a .png pic in Koala format. It doesn't magically transform into my artwork, no matter how much I rasterize it to make up for the missing colours.
It's not a big thing to mention the sources. If you like something enough to work your ass off to make a version of it for C64, hasn't the original creator deserved your acknowledgment on his part in the creative process? In my view, converting a pic 1:1 is 5% of the work at max (mostly technical, not much creativity in producing patterns) and thus the original artist's share is at least 95% of the work. So, if someone's name needs to be left out of the credits, perhaps it should be the person who did the rasterizing instead of the actual artist who had an idea, a vision and who made it reality in the first place.
Basically, just don't piss on the people that are your inspiration. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
And what stops them to just do all this stuff if they want it so bad? |
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acrouzet
Registered: May 2020
Posts: 97 |
There's a difference between being unreasonably demanding and requesting that everyone do a few simple things to help to create an environment where both the more "serious" artists can thrive and the less "serious" people still have plenty of room to play. Social contracts and all that. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Thanks for that list. Seeing Danny in there is hilarious. So you don't take it serious afterall <3 |
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