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Spectator
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 35 |
Floppy 2004 demos
I'm suprised not to find a thread about this yet.
Anyways, the WD demo definitely was my favourite, go WD! Especially the music. ;) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Haven't had the time to check 'm out just yet, but based on the reactions here I got very high hopes .. seems Floppy is the #1 party when it comes to good demos. |
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blackdroid
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 84 |
Floppy rocked. as to the amount of releases, thank god for the foreign support at the party, it was also nice to see that the creative atmosphere increased since last year ( atleast I think so ).
And as always here comes the banter, the amount of smoke and lack of air/ventilation support gave me the usual +24h floppy headache, which sucks in my humble opinion. |
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
real -data- headache and a i-have-had-too-less-sleep-feeling ;-)
i think this was a real good party so maybe we meet next year! yeah! not only about the amount of entries (which was pretty much) but also because of the good atmosphere.
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
An international party with nice atmosphere and some of the best compos ever. This will not be easy to top. Ever. |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Best Floppy this far, no doubt about that! Floppy has "matured" a lot from the start in 98 when it was more like a small meeting with mainly fake-demos in the compo. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 453 |
Quote: An international party with nice atmosphere and some of the best compos ever. This will not be easy to top. Ever.
...except the music compo, which was rather far from being top, I might add.
Hollowman proves his supremacy once again, "Wok Zombie" seems not as technically advanced as "Cycle"; however, being a spectator, I sort of liked it more. |
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blackdroid
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 84 |
Quote: ...except the music compo, which was rather far from being top, I might add.
Hollowman proves his supremacy once again, "Wok Zombie" seems not as technically advanced as "Cycle"; however, being a spectator, I sort of liked it more.
Too bad you couldnt attend and compete then. |
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Oxidy
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 80 |
Quote: Too bad you couldnt attend and compete then.
I'm sure SB will attend Floppy next year and improve the overall quality of the music compo. Perhaps.
Also, Ed and SB can meet and discuss music. ;) |
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blackdroid
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 84 |
Remind me to bring a videocamera and good audio recording gear. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 453 |
Quote: I'm sure SB will attend Floppy next year and improve the overall quality of the music compo. Perhaps.
Also, Ed and SB can meet and discuss music. ;)
Such a discussion would for sure result in a lot of kind words addressed to me in the note for some next Wrath Designs production ;) |
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Oxidy
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 80 |
Quote: Such a discussion would for sure result in a lot of kind words addressed to me in the note for some next Wrath Designs production ;)
Who reads notes anyway... ;) |
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
the note for -wok zombie- was a nice one :)
still i think it's a strange case that pictures putted into a demo on the same party were released in the graphics compos .... |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: the note for -wok zombie- was a nice one :)
still i think it's a strange case that pictures putted into a demo on the same party were released in the graphics compos ....
Why? This has been happening for ages .. the TP3 compo pics by Hein & Mirage were also in Visual Delight 2 for example. Nothing odd about it .. |
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blackdroid
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 84 |
Quote: the note for -wok zombie- was a nice one :)
still i think it's a strange case that pictures putted into a demo on the same party were released in the graphics compos ....
Nothing new really, happens each year, laziness or PR ? :) |
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Earthshaker
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 118 |
It would be a shame to not use those pictures. Demos are spread more than loose pictures. |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Same goes for tunes... I see no lameness in using the same tune for the demo- and music-compo... People get to hear it twice which _might_ improve your place in the music-compo. :) |
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Exile
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 54 |
Hi all,
Thanks for all those creative people in sweden and the foreignes ones like me. I liked Cycle the best. dont ask me why. i got goosebumps from it. gonna watch it again now.
Good chance that i'll be back next year.
One of the better parties i visitted so far!!
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
@zyron: its not about lameness, probably more about lazyness :-) i do not really care but this question came up in my mind. the feeling: look im voting twice for the same stuff, huh? even when the quality is high.
wok zombie is my favor demo but music wasn't that very special. anyway nice to see there were some very nice multi-coulored pics. |
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: |
atleast the partyplace was filled with stickers
saying 'smalltown boy' although that picture differed
alot from what SB looks like according to csdb |
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blackdroid
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 84 |
could be an old SB picture, guess he needs to update it, those dreads looked nice. |
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Bert/RDS
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 17 |
As this seems to be the right thread to put it:
I just wanted to say to HCL and Dane (if they care about my opinion at all) that CYCLE really made my day! This is one of the demos you show to non-c64 people to make them understand what making demos on the c64 is about.
I kept watching it all day, trying to figure out which soundtrack fits best :)
This one is really a candidate for "all-time-fav"!
Thumbs up!!!
BERT |
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
oh man, cycle is not the first design demo that have been made! maybe you have to visit some polish/slovak parties to see some more design demos :) there are a lot more demos wich could be showen to the 'outside' world but only problem is that they are 2 years old or. however, padua made a nice small demo last year. (cnn news/padua) |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Jeez, never thought I'd see someone compare Cycle to SNN. Well, there's a first for everything. |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335 |
lol |
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blackdroid
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 84 |
Quote: Jeez, never thought I'd see someone compare Cycle to SNN. Well, there's a first for everything.
If its any consolidation I think Cycle is a better demo than SNN ;) |
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Bert/RDS
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 17 |
Quote: oh man, cycle is not the first design demo that have been made! maybe you have to visit some polish/slovak parties to see some more design demos :) there are a lot more demos wich could be showen to the 'outside' world but only problem is that they are 2 years old or. however, padua made a nice small demo last year. (cnn news/padua)
It's not about one demo being a 'design demo' and the other a 'technical demo' or whatever.
I do watch a lot of demos from past and present and there are many that I like very much, be it design-wise or because of some insane fldflidycpmultiplexer-in-sideborder-record. But now and then there comes a demo that makes the difference for me. That's of course a personal opinion, but this time I could't resist to tell it to the rest of the world. |
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_V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
Thanks for your standpoint, Bert. Although I can't quite agree to comparing a relatively small production such as SNN to a larger production such as Cycle, it does feel good to hear they both have the "Oh, cool" effect. That's what we make'em for in the end.
On-topic: Yeah, Floppy 2004 is a good vintage - I browsed through the various prods with interest. My favorite by far is Wok Zombies, but that's because I'm an avid Resident Evil fanboy, thus I'm heavily biased towards the walking undead :). "Built stronger to wok longer" oh yeah. The Creators cartoon was very nice, too.
As for 'Ed meets Smalltown Boy', weeelll... let's just say I'd be a most intrigued spectator if that were to take place. ...I'd probably also organize the betting spree on who will win, but that's just me ;). |
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Morpheus
Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 152 |
Quote: @zyron: its not about lameness, probably more about lazyness :-) i do not really care but this question came up in my mind. the feeling: look im voting twice for the same stuff, huh? even when the quality is high.
wok zombie is my favor demo but music wasn't that very special. anyway nice to see there were some very nice multi-coulored pics.
You're nuts! The music was AWESOME!! |
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
i'm NOT comparing snn and cycle demos but just to to mention that those oh's and ah's are even more better than winning a compo. i must admit that the coder of cycle has much more experience than a coder like tomasz (lhs) but both tried to make something really cool :) |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Plural form - the coders of Cycle. :) I tried to idle, I really did! |
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
*sigh....... |
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blackdroid
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 84 |
Quote: Plural form - the coders of Cycle. :) I tried to idle, I really did!
He did say more experienced :) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
I think that this year's floppy, is a milestone in the c64 demo style, it all started with hollowman a few years ago, and now we are there, lets call it new newschool or something :) In a way the demo design became grown up, look at oldschool or newschool demos, they are outdated. Now we reached up to the standarts of the PC scene. We have quality, fresh ideas, we could get away from the roots. What do you think ? |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: I think that this year's floppy, is a milestone in the c64 demo style, it all started with hollowman a few years ago, and now we are there, lets call it new newschool or something :) In a way the demo design became grown up, look at oldschool or newschool demos, they are outdated. Now we reached up to the standarts of the PC scene. We have quality, fresh ideas, we could get away from the roots. What do you think ?
I think that, with all due respect, it wasn't just Hollowman who started it. Take a look at Rewinder X - not too many people claim to like it, yet a lot of stuff is influenced by it. Also don't forget the Wrath guys!
Also I feel that it's starting to lose its edge, maybe because "everybody" is doing it, but not always right. Sure, I prefer this style to that of a few years ago (hell, I helped originate it), but there is so much more 'we' can do. Time to take a new direction, me thinks.
As for my views on the Floppy demos, I'm writing the new Dark Court as we speak :) |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Quote: He did say more experienced :)
Aha, and although I'm...experienced when it comes to some things, sadly enough coding is still news to me. I only know digis and sideborder. :D Have to start taking those nightly classes from Puterman! |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1056 |
The twister in Cycle sure as hell made my day. Awesome.
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335 |
Quote: I think that, with all due respect, it wasn't just Hollowman who started it. Take a look at Rewinder X - not too many people claim to like it, yet a lot of stuff is influenced by it. Also don't forget the Wrath guys!
Also I feel that it's starting to lose its edge, maybe because "everybody" is doing it, but not always right. Sure, I prefer this style to that of a few years ago (hell, I helped originate it), but there is so much more 'we' can do. Time to take a new direction, me thinks.
As for my views on the Floppy demos, I'm writing the new Dark Court as we speak :)
May I just say: "Panoramic Designs"? Thanks. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: May I just say: "Panoramic Designs"? Thanks.
Sure, but remember: between their last work and the re-emergence of 'different' demos lies of a period of 6,7 years in which virtually nothing happened, until it got kickstarted a few years ago with demos by Triad, Wrath and Focus.
PD is for sure a big influence on me personally, as I've also written about in Vandalism News a while ago, and the 'angst' they so strongly broadcasted can be felt throughout a lot of Hollowman's demos as well. Still I think it's too easy to just claim he's following their road, after all "angst" is an universal theme, grunge was based on it, lots of the lyrics I've written in the past are based on it, etc.
The "animations + pictures + soundbites, all referring to the same theme" style that is so popular now (and on which I almost feel Wok Zombie is a persiflation, albeit a very cool one) can be followed back to King Fisher's legendary demos, which in turn were based on the U2 ZOO stuff and can also be seen in a lot of other-platform demos.
It's not a matter of just pointing in one direction (Hollowman or PD) and saying: "there's the source!", there are a lot of different sources. And as one of the sources we in Focus claim our share too, but that doesn't mean we deny that we have had our own sources as well, we just added our own flavour to it. Like Hollowman does. Like Wrath does. Like you do. After all, a lot of us are 'creative' in different areas as well, you with your animation work etc., Sander finished his art-school a couple a'years ago, some of the Wrath guys are very active in the art scene, I've been writing 'deep' lyrics for a long time, etcetera. And the best of us (meaning not just the people I mentioned here, others as well) take that with us to the c64 and create something different. The rest just look and try to copy it, without bringing anything new.
I could go on and on about this, as it's been a point of discussion lots of times between Sander & me. But that would mean derailing this thread even more, plus probably getting myself attacked once again, because we all know it's "bad" to claim you're different right? :)
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335 |
Did I say we owe it all to Panoramic? No.
Did I claim Hollowman was following "Panoramic's road"? No.
Do I think Panoramic should be mentioned when talking about this sort of thing? Hell yes. |
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blackdroid
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 84 |
Quote: Aha, and although I'm...experienced when it comes to some things, sadly enough coding is still news to me. I only know digis and sideborder. :D Have to start taking those nightly classes from Puterman!
just a friendly reminder, when he starts talking about "dungeons" he is not refering to dungeons and dragons, so have some good excuses handy like "I forgot my diskbox at home" etc. |
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Spectator
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 35 |
Actually i think the gap between PD and now was filled by the introduction of the Internet, which became popular around, say, 1997. I see a huge influence of the Internet, and the designs it shares and spreads, on the C64 (and any design related issue for that matter).
People are simply easily exposed, and more often, to electronic work of others.
So personally i think none deserves the credit, because, let's be honest, i sure as hell don't get my inspiration from c64 productions. Whereas back in the day, that would be the only thing you would get your inspiration from. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Did I say we owe it all to Panoramic? No.
Did I claim Hollowman was following "Panoramic's road"? No.
Do I think Panoramic should be mentioned when talking about this sort of thing? Hell yes.
Although I kinda took your post in the "PD is the source" way I wasn't referring to you specifically, but more to the scene in general, too many times I've seen people just pointing in one direction, that's why I reacted like this.
And as for mentioning Panoramic, there you go :) |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335 |
Hey, you're right, in the old days we didn't have cartoons, comics and other forms of art to inspire us. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Actually i think the gap between PD and now was filled by the introduction of the Internet, which became popular around, say, 1997. I see a huge influence of the Internet, and the designs it shares and spreads, on the C64 (and any design related issue for that matter).
People are simply easily exposed, and more often, to electronic work of others.
So personally i think none deserves the credit, because, let's be honest, i sure as hell don't get my inspiration from c64 productions. Whereas back in the day, that would be the only thing you would get your inspiration from.
Not entirely true: even in the 80's there were demos influenced by outside factors (Road of Excess, Red Storm) but I agree with you that nowadays there's more stuff to be influenced by.
But as for bringing a new style to the table, so to speak, the groups I mentioned above do deserve credit, because even between 1997 and 2000 nothing happened. Somebody had to start, and we/they did. But like I said, there's a lot of other things that still can be done, and it's kinda dissapointing to see so few groups branching in a different direction. If it's so easy to be influenced by other media, then why doesn't it happen? |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Hey, you're right, in the old days we didn't have cartoons, comics and other forms of art to inspire us.
I do so hope that was in reference to Spectator, otherwise I'm really confused now :) |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335 |
Quote: I do so hope that was in reference to Spectator, otherwise I'm really confused now :)
Of course it was. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Of course it was.
Doesn't matter, I'm still confused. Nothing that can't be solved with pills though. |
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Spectator
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 35 |
Of course there have always been other sources. We know the creators of Dutch Breeze got quite a bit from TV.
All i'm saying there's much more (media) of it now. Then again there will always be people who stay stuck, i guess they don't care.
I still think you don't deserve the credit, you haven't been inspiring, merely converting (2 screens, and that's it). WD is another story, and Hollowman too has his own style (i think most of it sucks, but he does his own thing).
I have yet to wait for someone to really inspire me on the c64. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Of course there have always been other sources. We know the creators of Dutch Breeze got quite a bit from TV.
All i'm saying there's much more (media) of it now. Then again there will always be people who stay stuck, i guess they don't care.
I still think you don't deserve the credit, you haven't been inspiring, merely converting (2 screens, and that's it). WD is another story, and Hollowman too has his own style (i think most of it sucks, but he does his own thing).
I have yet to wait for someone to really inspire me on the c64.
The fact that we haven't been inspiring you doesn't mean we haven't been inspiring others. And i'm not talking about the 2 screens but we've had this discussion before, no use in starting it all over. So for your sake I just say: you are right. |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335 |
Converting? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
well, yes it was a trend the past few years, but I never would claim it can be originated back to king fisher, or panoramic designs, that was a totally different piece of cake in my eyes... and yes there were the wrath guys, triad, and focus to evolve the style, but IMHO hollowmans stuff shined through the most, I still need to see effects in a demo to consider it as a demo. Demos made just for the sake of design are not for me. |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335 |
Oswald: and what do you consider to be an "effect"? |
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
I can easily say that I wouldnt have released anything c64 related after 2000 if Rewinder-X or MMAB/wrath never got released. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: I can easily say that I wouldnt have released anything c64 related after 2000 if Rewinder-X or MMAB/wrath never got released.
Thank you. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
mermaid: anything that pushes the hardware close to the limits... it is impossible to define exactly what is an "effect", but we all know what we call that, and what not. |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335 |
So, as the limits are pushed further, old "effects" stop being "effects", because they are not close to the limits anymore?
Does this mean than in your view old demos are not actually demos? |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
mermaid: I *knew* I will get a reply like this for that definition :)
no, I even call lame ugly 8x8 plasmas an effect, or moving rasterbars. At some time these routines were considered as ones pushing the hardware enough.
another definition that came to my mind: effect= a routine wich produces a visually entertaining changing image on the screen.
but this is not strict enough either.. even a game can be visually entertaining and moving... lets add "non interactive" ? we've seen interactive effects. |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
If an efffect is a visual phenomenon it's kind of pointless to keep developing digis and/or multispeed music. :D |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335 |
Now, if "effect" = "a routine wich produces a visually entertaining changing image on the screen. Non interactive" - doesn't that mean that a routine that copies animation frames to the screen is an "effect"?
I'll keep that in mind the next time someone accuses me of doing demos with no effects.
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Wile Coyote
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 640 |
Quote: So, as the limits are pushed further, old "effects" stop being "effects", because they are not close to the limits anymore?
Does this mean than in your view old demos are not actually demos?
They don`t stop being effects, as they are still effects. Simply effects that don`t push the limits as much as the lastest update on the same effect would do [if that makes any sense].
I much prefer a demo that has cool sounds, good looks with some hardcode :) ...when i see Booze Design take on Crest and beat an *effect* i`m usualy left thinking, well the Cresy version still looks better :D ...and, it took Crest to think up the idea, before you *Booze Design* could take it on and beat ;)
*I still that Booze Design demos too though. They`ve done some great stuff! :)
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335 |
Oswald: in other words, you'll consider even "design demos" to be real demos as long as they have some sort of animation in there somewhere? :-) |
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Optimus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
This thread is very interesting.
Definitions of "effect" are very funny :)
I am usually hot for more, more, more and better effects in demos, but this time I was amazed by Cycle, more because of music and design, not saying that it didn't had good enough effects too. But this particular demo made me feel like "Wow! There is still something new that can rock on the C64!!!". And I think every other demo release from Floppy had something nice or new to see. Wow!
One more. I discover Dane from the releases. I must have heard his music before, but after this demo I know whom to vote :). But gfx and coding too? Hey Dane, I am wondering! How can you manage to do all these things so great?! :) I am still puzzled by the hyperactivity of some sceners and sometimes I wish I had the same motivation to spend so much time in demomaking! But no way.. :( |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Dane = not just one person, but every scener from Denmark who likes to use that moniker. |
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Optimus
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122 |
I have heard of Mitch&Dane. Is that one or two persons? (I am always confused with such strange nicks! Someone on the CPC signed as Toms&Hicks but I met them both at a CPC meeting and they are brothers =))) |
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Wile Coyote
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 640 |
TDJ, will there ever be another demo from Focus? :)
...and what was all that talk (afews back) about Jeroen Tel joining Focus? did he join or simply hand over afew unreleased tunes to you guys /WEC :) |
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blackdroid
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 84 |
Quote: I have heard of Mitch&Dane. Is that one or two persons? (I am always confused with such strange nicks! Someone on the CPC signed as Toms&Hicks but I met them both at a CPC meeting and they are brothers =)))
Mitch&Dane have released a bunch of tunes together, aswell as releasing tunes separately. and yes the Dane in Mitch & Dane is the same Dane of ex-Crest who now is in BD |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
mermaid und die anderen...
I started all these effect definitions with the following thought: IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO DEFINE IT EXACTLY.
so please stop searching for the bugs in my definitions, I just took it as a challenge and gave it a try.
and NO an animation is not an effect.
mermaid: I love the thingie you and ninja have released at floppy, its so cute, unique, fresh, and new, but still I wont call it a demo, nor an effect. But I would love to see more in this style :)
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335 |
Whatever..By your own definition it contains several effects, and it is just as much a demo as the demos you have released. :-) |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
Oh,
"Mitch Dane" is a singer-songwriter who can be reached at www.mitchdane.com. Very interesting and creative in his approach to the folk tradition, and an appreciated producer aswell.
But C-64 wize, "Mitch" is Michael-Nilsson Wunderbaum and "Dane" is Stello Andersson. This could be verified with a simple search in the engine above, if you would have bothered to check. They have co-operated til Mitch got too busy and lost the interest in the C-64.
Personally I would rather see 1 demo in the style of Mermaids "Brief Bursts of Happiness" than 10 others. These are the demos which expands the definition of what demos are/can be, just like Joseph Beuys and others expanded the definition of art. This is far more important than stuff which is made in the same form as earlier demos, although altered. Other demos which I think ment much is "Timewaster", "Rewinder-X", "Hunger", "Psykolog", "A Small Demo" "Digi Dimensions" and probably many others, released in different eras. |
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Dwangi
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 129 |
Anything that includes nice gfx or a nice tune or some kewl effects can be a good demo for me.
I can enjoy every type of demo, except for those things that metalvotze produces. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: TDJ, will there ever be another demo from Focus? :)
...and what was all that talk (afews back) about Jeroen Tel joining Focus? did he join or simply hand over afew unreleased tunes to you guys /WEC :)
Yes, probably at the X2004. Chances have improved since Ben (ex Anorganic) came back into the fold some time ago. He simply rocks, as one of the best & most original dutch coders ever. But before that something you've all been waiting for: a WWE demo.
And Jeroen has been a Focus member since '95, and still is. Unfortunately he joined after our productive era, although he did cooperate on Rewinder X (the tune we used there was an old one but he changed it so it seemed to hang at the end). |
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: |
as tdj is begging for recognition, yes rewinder-x is great
but i believe isometric perspective had been invented
earlier.
there has always been plenty of sources of inspiration
around, but people have always been scared to do something
which they havent seen before and know is accepted.
the scene is like the schoolyard, be a bit different and
you are bound to be beaten and called a faggot,
so stick to the rules, make a snurkelscroller and run for
genius his crocodile. its best to play it safe.
anyhow, i'm not happy with wok zombie, to me its just an
ordinary demo, yes it has a theme, but so did spice up
your life/triad. i tried to make it as attractive as
possible, but still its just effect-picture-effect..
with no feelings attached to it. but a demo kind of demo
can have its charm i suppose, although this one doesnt
have much of it in my eyes.
oswald has a point with a demo not being a demo without
effects, i dont want to agree, but i still do. i try to
get rid of this fixed idea, but its a constant struggle.
and yes, brief bursts of happiness is great, and could be
placed along with hunger, over the edge, a qui ca sert,
timewaster and a few other c64 demos that i consider to be
actually worth something |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
'begging for recognition ..'
Yeh, fuck you too.
Have I ever claimed we invented isometric perspective? No. And I've never even considered your use of it being inspired by Rewinder X.
Funny, on the one hand you claim that the scene is a schoolyard and people behaving differently will be beaten up. On the other hand you try to put me down because I have the guts to claim what I think is mine. Because as we all know, that is "not-done". Now isn't *that* ironic?
I really think you are the most worthy and influental coder of this decade but I kinda get the feeling things went to your head.
So take your recognition and shove it up your cartridge port, please. |
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blackdroid
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 84 |
oh my.. |
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Richard
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 619 |
Looks as if this year's Floppy Releases really rocked. I enjoyed the demo by Booze Design & Fairlight the most. I also enjoyed playing 'Kid Vs Kid' by H&T. The music entries are average. Rock on C64sters! |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: |
What I found most interesting is in the Booze Design demo note it was written Booze Designs. Probably just an issue of using are vs is. I enjoyed most stuff so I find it was a good party release wise.
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blackdroid
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 84 |
You didnt read wrong Stryyker, its a well calculated PR move to ease the transition of Booze to Wrath. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: You didnt read wrong Stryyker, its a well calculated PR move to ease the transition of Booze to Wrath.
"all your codebase are belong to us" |
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Nightlord
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 131 |
great releases at floppy.
i was denied of attending the party on the last friday by the stupid officers in dutch embassy who gave me a schengen visum that starts to be valid on 1st of march and refused to make it effective from 28th February. If i hadn't check the dates last minute i would have spend the floppy party under custody in Kastrup airport Copenhagen. My demo efforts to take part in floppy atmosphere has been wasted, my long time wish of meeting the swedes has been unrealized and i am utterly frustrated but hey that's life...
now all there is left to be done is release at forever 5 and get the shit beaten out of me by whatever wizardry oswald has up his sleeves :)
and for the swedes (and scandinavians in general) i 'll keep trying to come to one of your parties and meet you guys :) |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335 |
Nightlord: awww :-( :-( :-(
Maybe you can make it to LCP in Sweden this summer? |
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Spectator
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 35 |
Quote Hollowman: "as tdj is begging for recognition, yes rewinder-x is great
but i believe isometric perspective had been invented
earlier."
Exactly my point, it's *not* new. |
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blackdroid
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 84 |
nightlord: sorry to hear that, we where all wondering when/if you would show up at floppy :) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Quote Hollowman: "as tdj is begging for recognition, yes rewinder-x is great
but i believe isometric perspective had been invented
earlier."
Exactly my point, it's *not* new.
It's not? Damn! And here I was thinking we invented the wheel!
Thank you for showing me the light Spek! Without you, the whole demoscene would be lost! |
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Nightlord
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 131 |
@tdj:
would you please wait to relase the dark court until the end of forever5. |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
This is why I like Hollowman. Ultimately, he does not just rant on a forum about what he thinks about this and that and what he used to do ages ago, but he prefers to voice his opinions with productions. Puterman does the same thing and I respect that.
But to just go on and on with words...guys, this is not the debate club. We're here to do demos. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3035 |
Quote: @tdj:
would you please wait to relase the dark court until the end of forever5.
Hrmpfz! TDJ is promising another Dark Court for so long that I don't believe in it until I see it in my mailbox! ;-) |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: This is why I like Hollowman. Ultimately, he does not just rant on a forum about what he thinks about this and that and what he used to do ages ago, but he prefers to voice his opinions with productions. Puterman does the same thing and I respect that.
But to just go on and on with words...guys, this is not the debate club. We're here to do demos.
No we're not. This is a forum, we're here to discuss demos. It's that simple. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Hrmpfz! TDJ is promising another Dark Court for so long that I don't believe in it until I see it in my mailbox! ;-)
Well, I had planned to finish it by this weekend but now I have to wait until after Forever 5 .. sorry .. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3035 |
Quote: Well, I had planned to finish it by this weekend but now I have to wait until after Forever 5 .. sorry ..
;-))) |
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blackdroid
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 84 |
Quote: Well, I had planned to finish it by this weekend but now I have to wait until after Forever 5 .. sorry ..
And then there is breakpoint 9-12th of april.. and and... |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: And then there is breakpoint 9-12th of april.. and and...
Shiiiiit ..
I'll just have to wait until the scene died then.
So stop producing already! |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Quote: No we're not. This is a forum, we're here to discuss demos. It's that simple.
Forgive me for preferring the actual demoscene over the metascene. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Forgive me for preferring the actual demoscene over the metascene.
You're forgiven. Now stop producing already! :) |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Personally, i'm just here for the free food... whaddya mean there isn't any?! |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Quote: You're forgiven. Now stop producing already! :)
There goes 60% of the scene :D |
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Spectator
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 35 |
Quote: It's not? Damn! And here I was thinking we invented the wheel!
Thank you for showing me the light Spek! Without you, the whole demoscene would be lost!
Let's not get drifted away, shall we?
Quoting TDJ: "Sure, I prefer this style to that of a few years ago (hell, I helped originate it).."
Could you give me your definition of 'originate' then? Because the one i have doesn't fit here.
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3035 |
Quote: Forgive me for preferring the actual demoscene over the metascene.
It's called pseudoscene. It's a sub-cathegory of todays C64 scene which had evolved from the cracking and demo scene in past. There also is retro-scene and retard-scene. And zombie-scene. Let's call the only worthy C64 sub-scene the true-scene.
now for the examples
psedoscene: People releasing unworthy productions : All stuff like web sites, C64 data collections, databases and any thing which is not a demo. This also includes all text generated on IRC, Forums, newsgroups and all campaings and attempts on organising of pseudo-scene productions. Good example of pseudo-scene campaing is last months campaing on transparent-votes in CSDB. Plus all C64 hardware and power-user software and utilities which are not a demo. Plus all single file data which is not a demo. Special case is stuff not in standard C64 executable formats. Like .sid and raw gfx-editor data like .fli .fla .flu .mul .hir etc. etc. blah blah blah. I think
retard-scene: This is a group of groups marked by a group of sceners who produce true-scene productions (a.k.a. demos). Those groups produce uworthy bloated material without any insight to true-scene problematics or even material not connected to true-scene or pseudo-scene not to speak about retro-scene. Such articles like formula-one, erotic-stories and various non-true-retro-pseudo-scene yadi yadi and so on. Productions conisdered retard can also look as serious attempt on isnightful and valuable production but actually having so much factual bugs that it cries out loud. Retard scene groups and personalities can't hardly stand true-scene isnightful criticism and good advices to stop producing unworthy material and improve the overall quality of their product. I actually think there could be sometihg as a retard-demo. A truly blasphemous attempt on making a high-paced production of low quality especially made in basic, but I haven't seen any proofs of such qualification existing.
zombie-scene: Old long inactive sceners active in pseudo-scene areas. I'll rather avoid giving any examples ;-) No-demos.
retro-scene: scene based on nostalgiac feeling connected with C64-game software and material playing and collecting and also with the basic idea of "C64-related". This scene produces and organises various C64-related web-sites, collections and activities. Plus all the sid-music remixes, c64-game remakes and, videos and... C64(related) demos (in flash, java, javascript ;-)
disclaimer: This is not by any means serious attempt on giving serious cathegorisation, rather highly subjective view on things. I hope you had at least as much fun reading it as I had writting it *evil grin*. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Pieter, Pieter, Pieter ..
How many times have we played this game? We both know that it won't matter what I tell you, you'll always find some minor detail to attack me on, while conveniently ignoring that which doesn't suit you (see: the iopop response above). Sorry man, but I won't dance with you anymore.
I love talking about demos and the scene, as I find the whole subculture behind it maybe even more interesting than most of the products it delivers these days, but I refuse to waste my energy on somebody I don't even consider a demo-scener. It's like discussing football with a PSV fan. |
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_V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
<points to a lot of the above>
What does all this have to do with the Floppy 2004 demos? It might be an idea to open other threads with more appropriate titles, for example "Generation Rewinder X and their implication on the semi-newskool demo wave" or "Demos my muse" or "On Demo Effects and the development of axioms to postulate a rigorous definition".
Not that I don't enjoy reading the posts, but their connection to the topic is waning faster than Bush can increase unemployment in the US of A.
Thanks for the analysis, CreamD, and due to my bias I should probably sign up for the Zombie-scene. Zom-bie Zomm-bie Zommmm-bie! Ahyeah, have a nice weekend. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3035 |
Quote: <points to a lot of the above>
What does all this have to do with the Floppy 2004 demos? It might be an idea to open other threads with more appropriate titles, for example "Generation Rewinder X and their implication on the semi-newskool demo wave" or "Demos my muse" or "On Demo Effects and the development of axioms to postulate a rigorous definition".
Not that I don't enjoy reading the posts, but their connection to the topic is waning faster than Bush can increase unemployment in the US of A.
Thanks for the analysis, CreamD, and due to my bias I should probably sign up for the Zombie-scene. Zom-bie Zomm-bie Zommmm-bie! Ahyeah, have a nice weekend.
The above debate (including my post) is called thread-hijacking. ;-)
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Poison
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 3 |
You can discuss this and you can discuss that but what really matters is that there still exists a strong and vital scene which keep producing music and graphics that is beautifully assembled into demos. Don´t matter if they´re crap or vinatge, they are made to be watched and enjoyed by other freaky sceners that still have their heads drewling for new demos and stuff. All is good in the land of 64...
Keep it up guys. See you at floppy next year, I hope. |
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hollowman
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: |
tdj, well, maybe things have gone to my head, what do i know
,but i'm not the one butting into the discussion trying
to get some supposedly deserved respect.
and i dont need to either, i get mentioned anyway, that
might happen when you actually make demos.
my schoolyard sentence was referring to sceneproductions
like demos, gfx or whatever, while you talk about behaving
differently in forumposts.
seems like we have different priorities |
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
Creamd thinks too much. Juicy braaaains.
|
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: tdj, well, maybe things have gone to my head, what do i know
,but i'm not the one butting into the discussion trying
to get some supposedly deserved respect.
and i dont need to either, i get mentioned anyway, that
might happen when you actually make demos.
my schoolyard sentence was referring to sceneproductions
like demos, gfx or whatever, while you talk about behaving
differently in forumposts.
seems like we have different priorities
There's so many things I could "attack" you on in this post, but it will only make things worse. So let's just agree on your last statement and leave it at that. |
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Spectator
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 35 |
Quote: Pieter, Pieter, Pieter ..
How many times have we played this game? We both know that it won't matter what I tell you, you'll always find some minor detail to attack me on, while conveniently ignoring that which doesn't suit you (see: the iopop response above). Sorry man, but I won't dance with you anymore.
I love talking about demos and the scene, as I find the whole subculture behind it maybe even more interesting than most of the products it delivers these days, but I refuse to waste my energy on somebody I don't even consider a demo-scener. It's like discussing football with a PSV fan.
Marco,
Maybe we've had this discussion before. But i'm not fucking with you here, i simply disagree.
Why is it that every time you come around boasting about this or that, claiming such and so. Now if you were the next HCL on the block, i might have understood, but you aren't.
It's nice how you keep saying things such as that you don't consider me a demo scener. Although i'm sure the people i've worked with think differently, that doesn't matter, because i don't go around posting what an impact i've had on the demoscene, now do i? I'm merely reacting on your overstated claims.
I'm glad you've made the difference for Iopop. But i think you're claiming too much credit, where credit is not due.
I completely agree with the posts above written by Hollowman about you.
--
On a different note, i was about to write the same as VIP here. I originally started of this thread to share opinions on the demos released at Floppy.
I'm curious to see why people for example find Cycle so great, and why Motivation isn't really mentioned that much. |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: Marco,
Maybe we've had this discussion before. But i'm not fucking with you here, i simply disagree.
Why is it that every time you come around boasting about this or that, claiming such and so. Now if you were the next HCL on the block, i might have understood, but you aren't.
It's nice how you keep saying things such as that you don't consider me a demo scener. Although i'm sure the people i've worked with think differently, that doesn't matter, because i don't go around posting what an impact i've had on the demoscene, now do i? I'm merely reacting on your overstated claims.
I'm glad you've made the difference for Iopop. But i think you're claiming too much credit, where credit is not due.
I completely agree with the posts above written by Hollowman about you.
--
On a different note, i was about to write the same as VIP here. I originally started of this thread to share opinions on the demos released at Floppy.
I'm curious to see why people for example find Cycle so great, and why Motivation isn't really mentioned that much.
Okay, I'll bite, and try to convince myself you're actually serious this time.
The mere fact that you get HCL into this proves to me that you don't have a clue what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about effects, or "isometric perspective". I'm talking about layers, symbolism, playing around with expectations, about actually doing something different, proving that there is still a lot of room for other kind of demos.
The fact that we made a difference for Iopop is enough for me. I don't claim we have influenced a lot of people, I just claim we did have some influence. And that we did, no matter if you refuse to see it or not.
Or did you honestly think I would make that statement if people hadn't told me so themselves? I may be an arrogant bastard, but I'm not that arrogant. |
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blackdroid
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 84 |
"I'm curious to see why people for example find Cycle so great, and why Motivation isn't really mentioned that much."
Well Cycle sure had a big impact on the audience at Floppy, simply because of the catchy tune, the in your face effects and the nice sync/design layout. Its also more of a fulllength demo, whereas Motivation merely is a small onefiler ( sure its roughly two and a half minute long ) with one effect and some graphics, we strived to keep the feeling of the demo constant after the buildup, so no drop in flow etc, also quite subliminal design like having similar colors in the scroller and the bitmap gfx. vsp'ing the whole thing to the bass. we had some more details planned but no time. If I were to rate the demo I would give it 7 or 8/10 probably, just because of the feel. If you break the demo apart nothing really is out of the ordinary.
Another thing to note is that this is the first demo in a long time when we have had alot of people contributing, and for some of us its the first c64 demo in quite some years ( zealots last c64 contribution was in '92 :), anyhow this has been a good trial process in how to work together again and it was quite rewarding to see the result at Floppy. |
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drake
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 207 |
i agree with poisson, i love the demos from floppy and love to see that ppl still like to do someig on this machine. keep it alive |
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Spectator
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 35 |
Quote: Okay, I'll bite, and try to convince myself you're actually serious this time.
The mere fact that you get HCL into this proves to me that you don't have a clue what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about effects, or "isometric perspective". I'm talking about layers, symbolism, playing around with expectations, about actually doing something different, proving that there is still a lot of room for other kind of demos.
The fact that we made a difference for Iopop is enough for me. I don't claim we have influenced a lot of people, I just claim we did have some influence. And that we did, no matter if you refuse to see it or not.
Or did you honestly think I would make that statement if people hadn't told me so themselves? I may be an arrogant bastard, but I'm not that arrogant.
No, you've misunderstood. My reference to HCL in this sense was meant as a figure of speech, meaning to say: if you were exceptionally good at something concerning demomaking (then i would have granted you the attitude). Which is not the case.
I've always been _very_ serious about my criticism towards you. And yes, i do think you are _that_ arrogant. But we'll leave it at that, because you clearly fail to recognise this. |
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Spectator
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 35 |
Quote: "I'm curious to see why people for example find Cycle so great, and why Motivation isn't really mentioned that much."
Well Cycle sure had a big impact on the audience at Floppy, simply because of the catchy tune, the in your face effects and the nice sync/design layout. Its also more of a fulllength demo, whereas Motivation merely is a small onefiler ( sure its roughly two and a half minute long ) with one effect and some graphics, we strived to keep the feeling of the demo constant after the buildup, so no drop in flow etc, also quite subliminal design like having similar colors in the scroller and the bitmap gfx. vsp'ing the whole thing to the bass. we had some more details planned but no time. If I were to rate the demo I would give it 7 or 8/10 probably, just because of the feel. If you break the demo apart nothing really is out of the ordinary.
Another thing to note is that this is the first demo in a long time when we have had alot of people contributing, and for some of us its the first c64 demo in quite some years ( zealots last c64 contribution was in '92 :), anyhow this has been a good trial process in how to work together again and it was quite rewarding to see the result at Floppy.
The tunes are indeed very nice, and it was great to hear some multispeed tunes again. And that one part by HCL ****ing rocks!!
However, designwise i think you guys beat Cycle by far! Excellent effort, hands down for that one!
Actually, now we're talking about it, i found myself humming the tune from Motivation the other day. So that one sure is catchy too. |
