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Moderators
Registered: Nov 2010
Posts: 32 |
Release id #194939 : CorGI
User Comment
Submitted by Elko [PM] on 24 August 2020
Yeah Corona makes me sick and depressive. But i try to do the best of that shit, its a kind of "must" do this, to protect friends & family. From biological and evolutionary standpoint its full ok for me to live with all that restrictions ;-D but hey, do what ever u want, BUT live with the consequences.
DAMN what a mind-blowing scroll-text, cant believe it. A new LOW-Level.
User Comment
Submitted by ZeSmasher [PM] on 23 August 2020
many comments, so I had to read that infamous scrolltext... GI Joe just typed covid tests aren't 100% accurate and he's skeptical about the government's decision to wear masks.
well, I don't think he spread fake news like covid is an hoax or Earth is flat, so let's move on. and yes: coronavirus suxx!
User Comment
Submitted by Nordischsound [PM] on 23 August 2020
one point to say "this sucks", I'm on board. Guess what? just found out, that a friend of mine lost a aunt and a cousin in brazil, because of COVID-19
User Comment
Submitted by Honcho [PM] on 23 August 2020
I'm all for free speach, but ignorance kills.
User Comment
Submitted by Medicus [PM] on 23 August 2020
This production makes me sick!
*PUKE*
User Comment
Submitted by awsm [PM] on 23 August 2020
Kudos my friend for being able to release while being boozed, also I encourage free speech and respect your opinion, but I'd also rather happily enjoy a fresh dose of tripper than approve your scrolltext message.
User Comment
Submitted by Groepaz [PM] on 23 August 2020
This scroller is a new low. And you should probably watch this video to understand the actual error ratio of those tests.
User Comment
Submitted by TheRyk [PM] on 23 August 2020
Freedom of Speech Disclaimer: Opinions of single members do not necessarily represent whole group.
Corona and fun, Corona and non-mainstream opinion, well... it was clear that this release provokes reactions.
In a way, I can understand iAN's reaction, especially as he's from Italy.
However, I've read through the scroll once more and found that GI-Joe _mainly_ just points out inaccuracy of some figures, nothing wrong with that imho, although I personally might not draw the same conclusions from that.
So what Jammer say bu also, freedom of speech includes GI-Joe is gonna endure that people criticize his view.
User Comment
Submitted by Jammer [PM] on 23 August 2020
His holy right to convey any bullshit he wants to ;)
User Comment
Submitted by iAN CooG [PM] on 23 August 2020
Very stupid message in the scroller. Just because you were lucky to not get infected so far doesn't mean the Covid is an hoax, it's serious and you should be always careful. |
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GI-Joe
Registered: Sep 2015
Posts: 21 |
Hi,
thanks 4 your comments, somehow I had expected such comments. Let me give some answers to your comments and background on this release.
I hope that this discussion will be more factual than emotional.
@iAN CooG:
No, I never said that corona is a hoax. Corona is still a very serious illness, which is very dangerous for some people. That's also my opinion. Many people has already died with corona, which is very sad and regrettable. As Ryk said: I can understand your reaction cause you come from Italy.
@Jammer, @TheRyk, @ZeSmasher and maybe Honcho:
Thank you for supporting the freedom of speech. This should never be lacking or suppressed in a democracy. I think most of you understood what I wanted to say.
@Groepaz, @Medicus, @Nordischsound:
I think you misunderstood a little what I wanted to say in the scroller.
Thatswhy i will try to explain the background of making that demo:
But first some info´s about me, if you don´t know me:
I´m a german man and live in SchleswigHolstein/Germany.
I love traveling, partys, beer, all kind of c64-stuff.
And i just doing my job, pay taxes and my rent like the most of you.
But i also like our freedom and democracy.
I´m a german, thatswhy i can only write about german corona case numbers and other german stuff. I don´t know enough about thinks in other countrys.
corona suxx, yes !
I was and am a supporter of the measures ordered by the German Government from March to May 2020. I think that was right and important because there were very good reasons for it.
I heard last week that the German government is planning a second shutdown due to rising infection numbers. This shutdown would make almost anything i like and i need impossible - again and partly not just temporary.
So I went to find out what these new high numbers of infections mean and where they come from.
There are a lot of opinions, videos, TV reports, newspaper articles on this subject, some of which are seriously contradicted.
I found a german video very interesting ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_MYKYJ1qHg - timecode 6:50 ...), but i was still skeptical.
For this reason, I thought that I would make my own opinion through my own research. I took the official numbers from the german Robert Koch Institute (www.rki.de) and checked whether what Dr. Schiffmann said in his video was true.
And it is really true. The PCR-Tests are not 100% accurate and this error rate inevitably results in false positives. In addition, the number of tests has almost doubled since June 2020. The sensitivity of the PCR test was also increased to cover possible gene sequences from other countries. These two facts automatically cause an increase in the number of cases, if only by the error rate of the tests.
The german Health Minister "Jens Spahn" himself has admitted it, but increasing the tests is still being pushed.
Ok, the results of my research are that we have case numbers in Germany at the moment, which could be almost entirely due to the error rate of the PCR test.
And I have a big problem with that.
Due to (and only because of) the Corona pandemic, the fundamental rights were and are being repealed in Germany and many orders were and are issued that limit the daily life and the exercise of many jobs.
But on the basis of the official case figures, this requirement has long since ceased to exist.
I now have many questions that I simply cannot logically answer:
* why are we still left in the belief that corona has epidemic dimensions in Germany? The latest official case numbers from the Robert Koch Institute say otherwise.
* why is the fear in the population of Germany maintained by politics and the media, even though the chance of infecting itself is statistically very low ?
* why is the population of Germany still being forced to wear completely useless and even permanently harmful masks.
* why are German fundamental rights still restricted, on what basis?
Guys, really take 30 minutes and look at the official case numbers and test numbers of the German Robert Koch Institute and form an unbiased opinion from it. Just do it.
I am very shaken by what is happening here and that's why I had to do a demo with a thick stinkfinger.
This was true of the current policy of the German government and NOT the Corona victims or those suffering from Corona.
CU |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
https://www.psiram.com/de/index.php/Bodo_Schiffmann
\o/ |
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GI-Joe
Registered: Sep 2015
Posts: 21 |
And what does this have to do with the official case numbers of the RKI I wrote about ?
Hey, you are a coder, you should calculate some numbers. I know, you can do that ;p |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
some numbers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czzrPQIg54Q |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3204 |
I tell you why the cases are rising again: because people like you egoistically only think about themseleves and pretend they are free to do whatever and go wherever they want despite the pandemic, and don't care about it while they manage to avoid the contagion.
The tests are not 100% accurate because they haven't really yet figured this damn virus 100%. Better a false positive than a false negative IMHO, if anything after 2 weeks with no illness one can try again the test and see there was nothing.
There is still no vaccine, if there will be ever one: some people even managed to get infected a second time after recovering a first infection. Remember HIV? There is still no vaccine after decades. It's not something you can joke around about.
There are not only "rights" in your life, but also duties. It's your duty to save YOUR and YOUR DEARS lives, to follow the guidelines, to be careful and wear masks always when in public with others, washing your hands etc.
> completely useless and even permanently harmful masks.
OMG. Another very stupid thing to say, karen. I can't believe I have to read such idiocies. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
Quote:Better a false positive than a false negative IMHO
this. and - lucky enough - false negatives are rare. |
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GI-Joe
Registered: Sep 2015
Posts: 21 |
like i wrote earlier
Quoting GI-JoeThere are a lot of opinions, videos, TV reports, newspaper articles on this subject, some of which are seriously contradicted.
You can spread tons of video-links and i can do that too.
But the only common truth should be the official case numbers of the german Robert Koch Institute ....
Anything else in this context is only opinion-making and scientifically ineffective. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
You started with posting a link to one of those "corona is harmless" clowns. the one i posted on the other hand presents hard scientific facts. this isnt about "opinions". |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
Not sure if this thread has anything to do with C64 or the C64 scene whatsoever. Doesn't seem like that to me. :)
Close thread? |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2268 |
Don't know why anything slightly controversial must result in call for *close fred*. BTW even moving release comments to forums doesn't make sense as the comments clearly referred to the entry's scroll and I've never understood why moderators think that's the way to de-escalate or prevent drama.
Personally, I don't share the conclusions GI-Joe draws from the tests' inaccuracies.
On the other hand, forbidding the demonstration in Berlin (though I'd never go there and had some arguments with people who sympathise with these protests) is wrong imho. Especially in Germany it would have been better to allow the demonstration, maybe make anti-demonstration and maybe fine/arrest people who violate current legislation including wearing masks. Banning the demo will only fuel the fire of those who claim government is instrumentalizing the pandemic to do law and order policy and weaken democracy. Even totally anti-democratic weirdos can play the martyr of democratic rights now.
And BTW autocrats would LOVE Germany and other EU countries not taking their own medicine but pointing out human rights violations in Poland, Hungary, Turkey, Belarus, Russia, USA... you name it. Gives a kinda hypocritical image. |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 521 |
sorry ZeRyk, but I'm with Frantic this time. free speech till my last drop of blood, sure! but this thread has nothing to do with c64 and the scene. it can be closed anytime for me. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
The point was not that the issue shouldn't be discussed because it is "controversial". That would be silly indeed. The idea was just, like ZeSmasher says, that this discussion has nothing to do with the C64 scene. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
They should have sponsored that demo.... and then bomb it with napalm.
Closing the thread has nothing to do with free speech at all. Just do it :) |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2268 |
Never mind :)
*forces himself to say no more as everyone knows democratic values don't apply here and even _not_ hailing CSDb moderation on anti-social networks (which I don't know shit about) can cause trouble due to ze rulez* |
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Copyfault
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 478 |
Before this thread is being closed (which seems to be "in the air" kind of), I'll share my few cents on the release: while there have always been demos with controversial political or social messages, I found it quite embarrassing that upon reading the scrolltext I got hit by AN INVITATION TO AN Anit-Corona-measures demonstration. Sorry, but for me this is just like those Nazi-glorifying demos that were out there in the past.
And yes, I know how numbers and other weights calculated by RKI and other institutes & alikes work, I could start arguing with the importance of escalation models that have not been brought up until now, etc.pp., but I think this is definatly *NOT* the right content for a csdb thread, so I hereby apologize for the last sentence (but in no way for the upper one!). |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2268 |
OK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
can be closed now :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
https://correctiv.org/faktencheck/hintergrund/2020/08/27/im-net..
Godwins Law doesnt apply here because *there are nazis on those demos*. And not just a few. |
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Copyfault
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 478 |
Quote: OK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
can be closed now :)
Funny, didn't know this, but seemingly I'm a living proof Godwin was right;))
To my "defense" *erm*: the Nazi-comparison was highly inspired by the recent discussion around Strider I read about in some other thread here on csdb (and the links given there). The emberrassment-level in my head when reading the scroller of the CorGI-demo was just like when watching the old fairlight demo with right-winged content in it (or maybe even higher). |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2268 |
what GPZ sez is a well-known fact - unfortunately. Problem is there ARE moderate, left wing and even hippie like people who really protest for their opinion and are too blind to consider whether it's a good idea do so in such a crowd, let's say marching with fascists on your left and right and themselves holding up a sign "defend democracy".
All I'm saying is labelling every non-mainstream opinion "Nazi" ain't democratic (actually it's the opposite, it's what Polish/Turkish/etc. "fake news" legislation does) - and won't help to convince anyone but rather radicalize people who still might be open to arguments... |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
This isnt about opinions at all - but about safety of the general public. Those ppl already showed once that they are not even planning to stay safe. Their fault. |
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GI-Joe
Registered: Sep 2015
Posts: 21 |
Quoting CopyfaultSorry, but for me this is just like those Nazi-glorifying demos that were out there in the past. Quoting GroepazGodwins Law doesnt apply here because *there are nazis on those demos*. And not just a few. btw, I´m not a Nazi and I don't like any kind of extremism, radicalism and terrorism. But hooray that you have finally dug the Nazi-haunch. I've been wondering if it takes so long... :)
I generally don't like stigmatizing and discrediting people by other people or by the media. I think this is a major problem in our social interaction with each other.
The truth is i.e.:
Most of the polish men are NOT car thieves.
Most dutch people do NOT have a caravan.
And so on ... the list is long ....
Most german peaceful "anti-corona-laws" demonstrators are not Nazis or Reichsbürger or whatever.
And: "A formative influence on the march or the overall rally did not come from these" - written by the german "Bundesamt für Verfassungsschutz" about the demo on 01.08.2020 in Berlin.
source: https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/corona-demo-nur-einz..
But if such stigmas and discredits to peoples are also disseminated, forced an repeated through the newspaper, radio, television, socialmedia, then this is not only non-investigative journalism, but this meets the first, the 3rd and the 5th point of the generally known guidance on "how to manipulate crowds successfully".
1. Manipulation by repetition
2. Manipulation by creating fear
3. Manipulation of thinking
4. Manipulation of behaviour by language
5. Manipulation of information
6. Manipulation of needs
Masters of this class combine all 6 points simultaneously for the maximum effect. :)
That works since thousend of years very sucsessful.
Quoting GroepazThey should have sponsored that demo.... and then bomb it with napalm. Ohh, really ? That´s much lower then my scrolltext, man .... :/
I still hope it was a bad joke ...
ok, Back2(Off)Topic (´hope anyone can randomly close that fred finally ...)
I´ve checked today the official case-numbers of the RKI from 28.08.2020
In the last 7 days we have here in Schleswig-Holstein (where i live) 122 cases positive tested - 4,2 per 100000 peoples.
In SH live almost 2.9 Mio Peoples...
That are 0,0042% of all people of Schleswig-Holstein they have tested positive with a PCR-Test in the last 7 Days. I´m very lucky about the less case numbers.
The "warmspots" in Germany are:
NRW: 0,01 % positive tested by PCR-Tests in 7 days
Bayern: 0,015 % positive tested by PCR-Tests in 7 days
Baden Würtemberg: 0,0137 % positive tested by PCR-Tests in 7 days
Hessen: 0,0148 % positive tested by PCR-Tests in 7 days
I don´t know how many are false positive but that decrease the numbers of infected ppl once more.
But is this an epedemic with pandemic proportions? No, it is no longer in Germany, according to the official numbers.
For me, only official facts count - not opinions, stigmas and discredits.
Therefore, there is no longer any legal basis for continuing to suspend the German-Basic-Law in parts. But the government is doing it anyway because they deliberately or unconsciously ignore the facts.
The german government want´s everyone to comply with the laws in force. But they don't themselves in some cases.
There are also many other things worth protecting in a society. Many jobs, businesses and livelihoods are already destroyed or very much at risk. And also the development and future of children are in danger. And not only because of the coronavirus itself, but also because of the government's disproportionate actions for the last and probably the next weeks.
People are simply worried about the democratic future of Germany.
That's why the people are out on the street.
So I'm not afraid anymore to get infected with the virus in Germany.
Crashing by plane is imho statistically much easier in these days.
But I will continue to perform all the hygiene rules that they have been ordered.
I've been doing this 30 years during the flu season (except wearing a mask).
And i try to eat less junkfood add daily some vitamin c, d and k into myself. A strong immune system is the best shield against such a virus.
ok, this whole thing here has nothing to do with C64 stuff anymore, that´s right.
I think politics is a bad topic in this forum, but somebody has moved the comments on the discussion here ...
Whatever, i don´t know - i don´t care ...
Let's just do more interesting things on the C64 like a "fart contruction kit" or whatever....
have a sunny weekend .... |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
Quote:the government's disproportionate actions for the last and probably the next weeks
yeah, wearing a fucking piece of cotton in your face when going shopping is outragous. especially when this is the very reason for why we are doing so well at the moment.
meanwhile that demo in berlin is going crazy just as expected. they should fine everyone not wearing a mask, and give the money to the poor cops who have to babysit those idiots.
fortunately, its just under 8% or so who think those actions are totally over the top. most ppl are fine with it, or even think its not enough. |
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Copyfault
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 478 |
Quoting GI-JoeQuoting CopyfaultSorry, but for me this is just like those Nazi-glorifying demos that were out there in the past. Quoting GroepazGodwins Law doesnt apply here because *there are nazis on those demos*. And not just a few. btw, I´m not a Nazi and I don't like any kind of extremism, radicalism and terrorism. But hooray that you have finally dug the Nazi-haunch. I've been wondering if it takes so long... :)
[...] Will refrain from contributing to the actual discussion but let me rephrase that I nowhere stated you to be right-winged or a Nazi or smth alike. To the opposite, I still think you're a good chap and am looking forward to meeting and chatting with you in the future (when I consider the overall situation as 'save' ;) - and, ofcourse, when you are interested :)=) ).
My criticism was aimed at the action of inviting people to a gathering which is known to severly affect the virus spread probability. But as said b4, let's wait for the right moment where we can discuss this personally. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbyqngOdkIs
it's hard to call them not nazi |
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GI-Joe
Registered: Sep 2015
Posts: 21 |
Quoting CopyfaultWill refrain from contributing to the actual discussion but let me rephrase that I nowhere stated you to be right-winged or a Nazi or smth alike. I know that no one called me a "Nazi". That's why I wrote "btw" at the beginning. That was just a personal description of me - just for people who don't know me ;)
Quoting CopyfaultTo the opposite, I still think you're a good chap and am looking forward to meeting and chatting with you in the future (when I consider the overall situation as 'save' ;) - and, ofcourse, when you are interested :)=) ) Yes, I would very much like to do that if i see yourself at a party later after all the Corona madness.
Quoting Groepazalso https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbyqngOdkIs
it's hard to call them not nazi I have written how the "Bundeamt für Verfassungsschutz" assessed the demonstration on 01.08.2020 in Berlin. No more, no less.
Incidentally, this (your link) is a completely different demo, which has nothing to do with the "Anti-Corona Measures" demo. Several hundred demos were registered for the 29.08.2020 in Berlin. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
Yeah sure, different people. Thats why they carry signs saying "Corona Rebellen". I got it.
(several hundred(!) demos. but of course! where do you get this "information"? a quick look at google shows that there were 2 or 3 events, all related to corona idiots. no more no less.) |
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GI-Joe
Registered: Sep 2015
Posts: 21 |
Were you in Berlin today ? Can you report first-hand? Believe me, this demo is a different from the Querdenker-anti-corona demo ! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
citation needed |
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GI-Joe
Registered: Sep 2015
Posts: 21 |
I'm tired now. My next demo will be easier I think ...
Maybe I'll release it at the bunker party 2021 :p |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
can't point to info to a handful of those supposed hundreds other demos, eh. who would have thought. somehow all and everything related to demos in berlin today points to anti.corona nutcases. probably all NWO fake news. |
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GI-Joe
Registered: Sep 2015
Posts: 21 |
https://www.berlin.de/aktuelles/berlin/6275327-958092-rund-1000..
On the subject of "not observance of the minimum distance". The police have sealed off the "Strasse des 17. Juli" like an "U" so that more and more people were let in from the "Brandenburger Tor", but due to the closure no place was created, as planned to let the demo-train run.
That was the reason, that the distances could not be maintained.
The lawyer Markus Haintz (blue T-shirt) of the organizer tries in vain to explain this to the police.
here the scene - Timecode 0:15 - 3:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4jMSgI1lBc&t=810s
The Fault for the non-compliance with the distance lies solely with the Berlin police. My wife was trapped in this cauldron and couldn't get out.
But the mainstream media don't report anything like this, it just comes: the distances were not kept. Oh man, wake up slowly as we get messed up .... |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
Quote:https://www.berlin.de/aktuelles/berlin/6275327-958092-rund-1000..
But you realise those 1000 applications were made by the same corona nutcases just to make a point? O_o There were not actually 1000 demonstrations you know... but 2 or 3.
Quote:The Fault for the non-compliance with the distance lies solely with the Berlin police.
But of course. The police also ripped the masks from everyones faces, and then gave them signs with silly slogans on it.
and a ken fm video. brilliant <3 |
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GI-Joe
Registered: Sep 2015
Posts: 21 |
Quoting Groepazand a ken fm video. brilliant <3
That's exactly what I wrote. Please don't stigmatise again. In this case, however, it is only about the uncutted content in the video. Or do you want to claim now that KenFM faked the video content?
Pfff.... |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
I am not watching KEN-FM videos the same way i ignore any other bullshitters videos, like Bodo Schiffmanns.
You seem to be quite deep into alternative facts. I am not. |
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GI-Joe
Registered: Sep 2015
Posts: 21 |
Quoting GroepazI am not watching KEN-FM videos the same way i ignore any other bullshitters videos, like Bodo Schiffmanns.
You seem to be quite deep into alternative facts. I am not.
Hey, that's not a problem for me, let it be good. I do not think other opinions are bad.
But, i always look at the counter-thesis from a thesis and make up my opinion from the synthesis of both.
And I trust what I see myself or trust what trustworthy sources tell me first-hand.
And i try to take official statements and numbers from their source.
I think more ppl should do that.
I've mostly been critical of news. Sometimes i think about such headlines in the "Bild-Zeitung" that you see lying around at the bakery - 'puhhh - hard stuff ...' ;)
I think a lot of KenFM-stuff is bullshit too, but an uncut video, which I found on the YT search, whose content was exclusively about it, I consider to be worth energized enough.
whatever, i'm done with the shift here.
Too many words without C64 reference, let's open some borders or whatever ....
I hope we can still have a beer or my selfmade Kräuterschnaps in the bunker or wherever - if you like - hopefully without Corona or other sick shit.
CAN ANYONE CLOSE THIS FRED NOW - FINALLY, PLEASE ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11391 |
Quote:I do not think other opinions are bad.
again: it's not about opinions |
