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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Release id #53316 : Ikari & Talent Intro
mmmh its somehow getting out of hand. intros that werent released like this (single file, without a crack attached) shouldn't get a seperate entry. |
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Mason
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 461 |
Well if they should be here then it will be needed that the intro should be shown here each time it got different text or different music.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
yes, and they they should be linked to all cracks it has been used in. etc etc etc.
rip it and send it to intros.c64.org instead. |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
Crackintro's should only be added when they were released seperately.
All those crackintro's uploaded by Rough are stripped from a crack thus not an official release.
Please...stop.... thank you! |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Intros are part of the scene and there's the point to add their credits to the cracks which they were linked to, which I did first. But I decided (on hint of CBA) to enter single entries for each intro, so they also get their attention. By the way, this has already been done before e.g. Mechanix Intros added by Cyberbrain |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
and they are NOT stripped off cracks, the downloads are the cracks which use this intros. Check before you write! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
just because there are other entries entered wrong that doesnt mean you should add even more :) |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
Those entries by Cyberbrain should also be deleted.
So again, stop adding those intro's!
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Just because you two say it's wrong, it isn't wrong.
Give me a proper argument not to add those intros and even better a solution how to add intros and their credits to the database or be quiet.
Sure they are no single releases, that's why the cracks are entered as download and that's why I didnt add a release group to their entries. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
the point is that only _unaltered_ releases that were released exactly like this (in the download) should get an entry. ripping the intro from the crack is wrong (no altered releases), just like adding cracks as a download (those files belong to the crack entry).
also its not just us two. this has been beaten to death already =) |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Cracks belong to the crack entry and it's also useful to have them as download to the fitting intro entry.
"not just us two".. evidence?
I want to hear more opinions of others! |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
This is a DATAbase, not a file server.
As long as it's not possible to properly add credits to crack intros that go with the crack, I think Rough's idea isn't too bad.
After all, we are interested in the information here.
If Rough's way isn't right, then suggest a way to properly credit intros in some other fashion. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
there is no proper way right now. yes its a database flaw. and no adding them all anyway isnt a good idea, since that will mean major work once such a feature is made. |
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Trazan
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 620 |
Support zyrons project, Intros.c64.org instead, thank you!
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Flame me, but I like how Rough is doing it. One entry per intro with nice additional info and all the sids added that got used.
@Groepaz et al.: Be careful not to slip into a narrow minded finance office accountant mentality. Sorry if it sounds a bit hard, but I get the impression that you're sometimes insisting on "the rules" just for the sake of it. Finetune the rules instead if someone brings up something interesting that lies outside the current scope. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
we are working on "finetuning" the rules.
however, quality (and that also means database consistancy and integrity) comes WAY before quantity. all this stuff can be done later when it can be done properly. it's not like anyone would run out of work until then =) |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Hehe, now THAT we can agree on for sure! ;-) |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
Quote: Flame me, but I like how Rough is doing it. One entry per intro with nice additional info and all the sids added that got used.
@Groepaz et al.: Be careful not to slip into a narrow minded finance office accountant mentality. Sorry if it sounds a bit hard, but I get the impression that you're sometimes insisting on "the rules" just for the sake of it. Finetune the rules instead if someone brings up something interesting that lies outside the current scope.
Don't get me wrong, i have nothing against uploading intros.
But what I've stated earlier, I find it nonsense to upload crack-stripped intros for preservation sake.
For this we have intros.c64.org already and the original crackrelease.
Maybe cross-referencing from intro.c64.org with csdb (and vice-versa) might be an idea but that's something for the site-developers.
All I want is a clean scene database that represents a clear (and clean) view of what is released in the C64 cracking- and demoscene.
Those intros are not the case.
Now we have uploads of crackintros. What's next? Pictures ripped from demos?
On a sidenote, cheers for Rough for uploading and updating the csdb-entries (the non-crackintro's that is ;-). |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote:
Now we have uploads of crackintros. What's next? Pictures ripped from demos?
thats the point. such kind of things ideally go into their own database, and are then crosslinked with each other.
thats btw exactly the reason why sids from hvsc get different entries than other stuff.
and oh yes, kudos for what rough is doing. |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
good point there, but there are differences betweens .sid files and intros
a) first of all .sid files are originally Amiga/PC related, not to be used on 64
b) .sid files are ripped, the downloads of the intro entries are not, they are the original cracks
c) sid tunes have their proper credits in every release including links to HVSC to listen to them, intros are not credited at all, only possibility: within a crack which looks weird and also gets following problem: when an intro is e.g. 50 times used, a 100% database would credit its producers a 50 times, not very senseful.
The way I do it right now also gives some problems, e.g. I enter as release data the date of the crack it was first used on (at least to my current knowledge...) and furthermore I add sid tunes which were used in that intro later which gives them when credited a wrong date.
Currently it's a good solution and I like it. When there is a better one my entries can be removed every time, that won't be a problem. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote:
When there is a better one my entries can be removed every time, that won't be a problem.
no please. removing them will be work, which is unnecessary. just wait until we have a decent solution.
(chances are, those entries will be deleted even before we have a proper solution. just like pointless gfx entries with pictures ripped from games have been removed. actually we are preparing a foundation of rules atm to establish exactly that) |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Who is 'We'?
and.. a 'new solution' can be in centuries?! |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
what pops up in that particular problem to me is also that I strongly support a checker flag if code/gfx/music etc. is originally done for the entry or ripped (like music and fonts) |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
Quote: what pops up in that particular problem to me is also that I strongly support a checker flag if code/gfx/music etc. is originally done for the entry or ripped (like music and fonts)
What also might be an elegant solution is the possibility to add separate crackintro information in a crack-entry.
*brainstorming* |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote:
Who is 'We'?
the site admins/mods/nazis/assclowns (pick your favourite) :=)
Quote:
and.. a 'new solution' can be in centuries?!
hopefully not :)
Quote:
what pops up in that particular problem to me is also that I strongly support a checker flag if code/gfx/music etc. is originally done for the entry or ripped (like music and fonts)
yes :)
maybe we should put a rough "todo" list online so everyone can see what is planned, and what has priority (like atm, perff is doing some tools for us so we can maintain things like merging entries better).
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
of course the admins/mods
but who exactly are these people?
Perff, you, Cyberbrain, Zyron, Violator, who else? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Site admins:
Perff, Cyberbrain, KBS
Site moderators:
CreaMD, Zyron, Trazan, Wreg, Dishy, The Communist, Groepaz
(however, cyberbrain, kbs and dishy are absent for quite a while...) |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
off-topic: in rare moments it is possible to upload right now, so if you want your new demo out, just try several times in a row |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790 |
I think for intro entries (for intros not released as separate releases) to be of any use, the cracks that use that particular intro must have a link to that intro entry.
Otherwise, the credits still won't be accessible from the crack.
Furthermore converting the entries when/if a better system is deviced will be much hard labour.
This has been discussed earlier, and I basically agree with groepaz that we should wait a bit with this until we have worked out a system.
I do agree with rOuGh that it would be nice to have intro credits in one way or another. |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790 |
Quote: what pops up in that particular problem to me is also that I strongly support a checker flag if code/gfx/music etc. is originally done for the entry or ripped (like music and fonts)
This is a very good suggestion!
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790 |
see this thread: Intro credit for releases |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
I wouldnt delete 'my' intro entries, because it's much easier to add information when there is a "new solution" with the information shared in them instead of going through all the releases again.
And yes, crack entries should be linked somehow to the intro credits. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
i think you underestimate the amount of work involved to fix this kind of stuff. it could be quite a task to fix info for even one intro properly (which means locating all releases the intro was used on manually, and crosslink all the entries with it).
why not simply move the intros further down your todo list and add more regular cracks? much more efficient, imho. |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
Currently I'm going through cracks, but those I actually enter the intros from I have already added as cracks. ;) They are in some kinda A-Z order and I want to add intro credits as well into the database.
I don't underestimate the work, I just don't see why adding each info from the original release again should be less work.
After all, when browsing through the forums there are many discussions on how to do this and that, and sometimes the discussioners draw conclusions but nothing happens. Probably a lack of time of the database coder which I understand of course. Thumbs up for him anyhow. |
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Dishy
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 241 |
I added this Vision intro some years ago:
Vision Intro 1992
It should probably be deleted then. :/ Right or wrong.. Ray/VSN did the code, Wave/VSN the graphics and Zeus/VSN the music. I think, these info belongs in here - and it´s nice, that these old intros are at CSDb too.
*****Once A Scener - Always A Scener***** |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote:
sometimes the discussioners draw conclusions but nothing happens. Probably a lack of time of the database coder which I understand of course. Thumbs up for him anyhow.
thats the major problem yes |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1101 |
Quote: Quote:
sometimes the discussioners draw conclusions but nothing happens. Probably a lack of time of the database coder which I understand of course. Thumbs up for him anyhow.
thats the major problem yes
well, I offered my help a while ago, but didn't get a response.
so to me its pretty simple, perff doesn't have the time to add functionality to csdb and he doesn't want help either. |
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wreg
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 679 |
i offered my help as well, but he didnt want it
anyway i see small improvements from time to time
just bug him a bit more :-) |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790 |
If we intend to keep adding these intro credits, posting a link from the cracks to the intro is imperative, at least for the obvious ones just added.
Re-adding the download for just the intro is redundant. Just put a comment pointing the user to one of the cracks having the intro.
IMO we don't want the same file routinely added twice.
Also trying to differ which "Intro" type releases was actually released as separate intros from those that are credit placeholder will be a nightmare later.
EDIT: A quick and dirty solution could be to have a new release type like "Intro (credits)".
EDIT2: And even better, also add the feature to add a list of pointers to releases from a release. (listing name and release type, with an optional comment)
All sorts of useful things could be done with these two.
e.g links to Intro credits, links to previous versions (i.e the cruncher that was hacked to create this one)
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
I agree, crack and intro should be merged, but how?
Besides it's quicker to add a small file download to an intro entry than adding a link. Furthermore it's a nice gimmick to see in which releases the certain intro was used.
I need a cigarette. |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790 |
Yes, but without the link, finding that afterwards is very hard. You have information about that connection and that this is not a separate release, but it is not added into the DB.
Anyone searching to find that connection later when implementing support for such links won't see it.
The worst case scenario is that all C64 Intro type releases have to be reexamined to be determined if they really were separate releases, and also which crack they belong to.
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
which cracks the intros belong to can be seen in the download list..
it's not too time-consuming to enter search mode and look for the game name for someone who wants to merge both entries or even add infos a new way. D
Btw, the search plug-in is quite useful. 8)
anyone: don't ask ME to enter the links in comments or something, I'm already doing plenty of stuff.. |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790 |
You've made your point! :)
I agree with what you are saying, but I think maybe you should consider waiting adding more intro credit stuff before we have discussed this a bit more to work out a plan.
I'm a bit concerned that the actual link adding might get to be more work than actually adding it with links in the first place.
Btw, I've done plenty of stuff here too you know. :)
EDIT: and hopefully this will trigger Perff to do some work on these functions. ;)
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1101 |
it is indeed not very smart to add intros with gamedownloads here, csdb developers should first add the possibility to link intros to games, possibly using intros.c64.org db.
now, rough, you are adding wrong data, with wrong files. it should be done properly or not at all as it just makes a big mess in the db. |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1790 |
I PM'd Perff and he had an idea how to do it which seemed quite flexible, so let's hope it works out... :) |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Aye, probably better to hold your horses for a while, rough. It seems there's something brewing. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
yes, something will be done to solve this. save yourself the work of adding stuff that will have to be redone anyway :) |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
let's see what happens |
