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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11416 |
Release id #234044 : Master Duplication Menu V02.00
Just a question.... when proper games, coded in ASM by active people today, do not qualify for csdb - how does some random lame disk menu, made by some nobody in BASIC, that loads someone elses cracks? Please be specific, thanks. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4742 |
Lame or not, obviously scene related. I added some other of these tool collection with the same level made by Saturn, later Black Shadow/FLT, if I recall correctly. Clearly relevant and part of scene history. Can you be more specific which scener related game in ASM you refer to, as we have tonnes of games made by sceners added? You don't refer to random games coded in ASM put up on GitHub are you? Please be specific, thanks.
"random lame disk menu, made by some nobody in BASIC, that loads someone elses cracks" = music collection menu made in BASIC with other guys music. Same thing. As long they are scene related, lameness is not relevant. As said, everyone started somewhere.
I fear this discussion will end up in a question about what the scene is, and what it is not, but hey. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11416 |
Quote:You don't refer to random games coded in ASM put up on GitHub are you?
Please explain how the people doing this are less "scene" than random schoolyard lamers who make a basic loader for other peoples cracks. Does not compute. Noone would have called those people "sceners" back then, so what qualifies them as such now? |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4742 |
The practice of using handles rather than real names is the fastest and easiest answer, and also creating and being part of groups with certain names. It's quite easy to see who is making/trying to make a scene prod, and noone ever needed anyone elses blessing to "join the scene", even if it seems you are fond of excluding certain people ("nobodies") and prods. IMHO we should not judge what is lame or not, as it would exclude a lot of scene history, and the scene always contained both the "elite" and the "lamers". And you know that.
But you did not answer my question: What makes a random Joe that creates a game in assembler under his own real name and release it online as shareware or freeware a scener? You seem to base your opinion on quality of what is produced rather than the question of what the scene is. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11416 |
Quote:You seem to base your opinion on quality of what is produced rather than the question of what the scene is.
Not at all. I just said how it was back then, because that's how many people happen to base their definition of "scene" on.
My definition of "scener" *today* is: if you make something for C64 (Atari does not count, nor Spectrum, or Amiga :)), and it's not a commercial product, then it's a scene production and you are a scener. No exceptions. What name is used, or what channel of distributing is used, makes no difference to me. That is why i am asking. Excluding people only because they use a certain name or a certain way of releasing is just arbitrary, stupid, and offensive. And i am sure there are plenty existing entries of people who would not match this definition at all, which makes it even more arbitrary, stupid, and offensive.
And yes, if your reason for including something is "it is scene related" - then you'll have to be ready to define what "scene" is - and in a way that doesn't involve arbitrary decisions, and can be understood and reproduced by everyone. Someone should be able to start browsing csdb and remove "non scene" entries, according to your definition. And you know this. (Using the definition above it's very easy, and leaves very little room for discussion, btw - which is why we used to apply that rule for a long long time - yours results in the arbitrary chaos we have now.). |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4742 |
Your opinions have been noted. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11416 |
Still noone will tell us the "csdb" definition that we can apply? |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 117 |
Ultimately, most definitions are arbitrarily "agreed upon", but +1 to everything Groepaz has previously said. It's a double standard to collect 1987 highschoolers' Intro Designer "recracks", but refuse to collect contemporary original C64 releases because of their assumed affiliation, if that's the case. |
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Brataccas
Registered: Jan 2015
Posts: 16 |
What is getting 'refused'? Every little thing gets cracked right away and seems to end up here. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4742 |
Quote: What is getting 'refused'? Every little thing gets cracked right away and seems to end up here.
Things that are refused are mostly tools made by non-sceners, private notes, non-finished stuff found on work-disks, and commercial and freeware games made by non-sceners. Other than that we are very liberal imho. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4742 |
Also:
Rules I.3: "Whining about the rules in public (in the comments, forum etc) is not tolerated and will make us very triggerhappy. If you have a reasonable complaint in constructive manner, please send one message to the admins and your complaint will be discussed, and eventually the rules will be updated. Constant rambling about the rules in the forum, comments and/or messages to the moderators is considered trolling and will not be tolerated and eventually result in a ban. DON'T! This includes, but is not limited to, repeatedly opening forum topics for the sole purpose of getting attention, reposting what has been censored by a moderator, nitpicking on the rules and pasting them into the forum and/or comments. DON'T! "
I am sure Groepaz knows these rules well, as he was part of creating them. For the ones that can't find them, here's a link: https://csdb.dk/help.php?section=rules
They cover most things.
So: further opinions could be directed to the mods.
Thank you. |
