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2010-01-04 02:20

algorithm

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 702

Introducing Tri-Lace

Coming soon..

Yes, It does flicker but this is reduced somewhat with interleaving of fields (as well as not mixing combo's which produce high flicker.) This gives a shimmer effect.

Each 8x8 block can have up to 8 mix colors. Image above utilises non brute force and partial flicker reduction (with hand selected color combo's.) Still optimising the routine. (Brute force takes over 8 hours!) but managed to reduce it down to around 2.

Non interleaving allows full 320x200 view with virtually no CPU usage (but looks horrendous on non stable refresh displays)

Using new compiler (Now can build x86/x64 linux /windows executables

As far as i am aware, there only seems to be one demonstration (which utilises 4 screens - but in petscii). If there are any which use more than two screens for colormixing etc. let me know

... 77 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2010-01-05 11:43

algorithm

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 702

Certainly flicking three screens produces immense flicker hence would only recommend displaying it on solid 50hz (or was it 50.12) framerate. But its not as bad as it seems. The effect is more a 'shimmer' rather than flicker due to interleaving.

On a TV set it looks great due to phospor delay. Still have the GUI to complete as well as reducing flicker further in the logic code. (and barely any time due to personal commitments and work) But very soon :-) possibly today :-)

Yes, the total amount of mix colors by flicking two screens is indeed 136 but many of these mix colors produce horrible flicker and wrong colors (eg to a converter black and white should be medium gray) but this is not the case when displayed (as well as headache inducing)

For examples of Hires interlaced and HIFLI modes, can try out my previous converter (MixCol HIfli converter) although this new converter (trilace) is far more accurate in regards to rendering.

Deekay: Great pictures in the MUIFLI hidden parts.

2010-01-05 12:21

DeeKay

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362

Algo: thanks! ;-) Wish I had some more time to work on the Sorayama pic a bit more (noticed some areas that could do with a bit of deflickering afterwards when watching it in the emulator for the first time!), but we wanted to release it as a xmas present...

Make sure to also check out alih's a bit more flickering, but also interesting rendition of one of the pics using IAFLI: C- - Must Try Harder

As for the heavy flickering colors of all 136: see the P.S. above! ;-)

As for deflickering: Remember: even distribution among the frames is key! ;-) Which is why MUIFLI flickers so little (i have some more example pics here that we couldn't fit in that hardly flicker AT ALL!), since we can use the extra sprite color to have two bitmap colors...

2010-01-05 13:57

Frantic

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1630

It is good to see that Goa Brudbilder became an industry standard benchmark in technical discussions of c64 display formats. ;)

2010-01-06 10:29

Skate

Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 491

I have an idea.

Tri-lace should be best viewed in 75hz, right? What if we interpolate 75hz to 50hz?

Currently you switch frames like 1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,... right? Instead of switching like that, we can use a table like below;

1,1,2,3,3,1,2,2,3,1,1,2,3,3,1,2,2,3,1,1,2,3,3,1,2,2,3,1,1,2,3,3,1,2,2,3,1,1,2,3, 3,1,2,2,3,1,1,2,3,3

This is the 75hz to 50hz interpolated table. There are sequential duplicated frames but when we check the frequency, 1st frame is shown for 17 times, 2nd is shown for 16 times and 3rd frame is shown for 17 times again. Since 50 is not dividable by 3, this is the best possible result.

I don't expect a perfect result. I expect something like watching interlace graphics on an emulator which runs on other than 50hz. But it may look better than 1,2,3,1,2,3 switching. What do you think?

2010-01-06 10:47

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5029

while its a nice & interesting mode, it will flicker like hell no matter what. also form what I can gather, most people prefer steady screens. including me.

2010-01-06 11:10

enthusi

Registered: May 2004
Posts: 675

skate, your logical approach will only be reasonable on a screen that blends all frames :)
not having all 3 different frames right after each other will only increase the (quite likely already very noticable) flicker even more.
I pray that no emu will ever feature some frame-add-up.
And there I am, afaik some mac-vice-stuff(?) already has a deflicker-mode? This is the end my friends...
I see hords of people releasing even shittier stuff requiring that very emu-feature...
Ok, I drift off...
The idea of tri-lace is obvious and lame as such IMHO.
Writing a converter to try to get the best result is interessting though and Im looking for a binary to inspect this.

2010-01-06 11:43

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11148

Quote:

I pray that no emu will ever feature some frame-add-up. And there I am, afaik some mac-vice-stuff(?) already has a deflicker-mode? This is the end my friends...

unfortunately this kind of stuff is pretty much needed to display smooth animation on a non 50hz display ... but indeed, the frame-mixing crap some other emus have to improve the looks of interlace gfx is just...yuck :)

Quote:

The idea of tri-lace is obvious and lame as such IMHO.
Writing a converter to try to get the best result is interessting though and Im looking for a binary to inspect this.

yep, that sums it up quite nicely :) i'd like to see the converter, play around with it and inspect the results.....

but please, if you are making a demo, stick to non flickering. (koala ftw)

2010-01-06 15:42

Trash

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 122

The idea of interpolation actually isnt that bad but why not extend it to interpolate to 75hz by rasterrows and not frames?

2010-01-07 06:43

Radiant

Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639

I don't get why most people are against some flickering. If handled properly the results can be very good - with a low price to pay. Of course you wouldn't want to work in a flickering environment, but for single pictures I say go, go, go (but please be sensible about it)!

2010-01-07 07:50

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5029

"If handled properly the results can be very good - with a low price to pay."

no pain - no gain.

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