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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
A thought ..
Hi all,
i was thinking about a idea i had a the other day while i was on http://remix.kwed.org. You all might know the site, its a c64 remixer platform with nice rating and commenting system. The whole thing is linked with http://www.remix64.com/ and forms a great community platform for the entire c64 remixing scene (strictly mp3 and studio-driven or vst based remixes). Ive submitted a couple of remixes there myself.
The reason im mentioning this is, i am missing something like this for the native c64 composing scene. Im sure there are plenty of people out there who still compose natively on the c64 (or emulator / goattracker).
You might say, we allready have HVSC. Dont get me wrong, HVSC is great and i highly admire and value the work the guys have done there.
The thing is, HVSC is kind of static. More recent composers are usually just an extension to the VARIOUS/... branch of the next HVSC update. If im not in a curious mood, i seldomly go wandering through the various branch unless im looking for something specific.
It would even be a great addition to things like HSVSC and CSDB if connected similar to remix.kwed.org and c64remix.com.
I was actually thinking about trying to set up something myself, with some PHP & MySQL implementation (im a half decent PHP coder). Im not sure though if a project like this isnt a little to ambitious for one person.
I would like to hear a few opinions about something like this from other sid related folks. So if anyone feels like discussing the idea i would be happy to hear from you.
Cheers |
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Bamu®
Account closed
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 1332 |
Hmm, it seems that nobody is interested :_(
however, the idea sounds good. |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Seems so, wierd though. Ive added a couple of my latest SIDs to my releaselist here in CSDB and promptly got slapped for it with a comment that SID files do not belong here.
Ok, i could have just made a simple c64 screen with the tune playing and added that instead, but give me a break. |
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Yodelking
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 189 |
Joe: We'll add your SIDs to HVSC. :)
Some people did playlists for their favourite tunes, and if you're not in a mood to browse around yourself, you can download playlists.
When I hear a good tune from a composer I usually leave the playlist, and listen through all of the composers tunes. Sometimes I just browse around for fun until I find something I like.
I've also selected my favourite tune from the composers I have on http://composers.c64.org/ so you can browse around the site, and listen to my favourite from each composer.
According to the guestbook my taste of favourite sid is interesting:
"Wow, interesting choices for favourite tunes.. The authors of this page should perhaps try collecting stamps instead.."
;) |
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Rattus
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 34 |
I think it's a great idea... a few (thousand) SIDs per year won't even eat much space... And with rating system you could just browse through the best... And see what people think of your SIDs... Do it ! :) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Joseph:
I also like the idea of a SID portal with forum stuff.
http://sidmusic.c64.org ? currently points to c64.org,
would be a nice address to have..
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
That would indeed be a nice url. I would seriously consider doing this if i could find some people willing to lend me a hand. I could do the PHP & MySQL code but my designing skills are somewhat limited. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
If such a portal shall be built, wouldn't it be a good idea to build it around HVSIDS itself? I mean.. Rather than being separate from HVSIDS, tunes could be submitted to HVSIDS, but the portal could add functionality as a "layer" above HVSIDS. That would include such things as highlighting new tunes and new rips of old tunes and having all the vote stuff and discussions and so on? Also, the site could be used for generating playlists, which could then in turn be used locally on your already-downloaded HVSIDS-collection. This would also resolve (from the viewpoint of the user) the staticness of the directory structure of HVSIDS, because it would provide other structural entry points into the collection, even though the underlying file structure is the same as the current HVSIDS release. When a HVSIDS update is provided, the database of the portal could be updated accordingly, including playlists built on the previous version of HVSIDS, even if tunes are moved and so on.
...and no, I am not going to put any concrete energy into this myself. Just sharing my idea. :) |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Well, my idea was integrating it with HVSC and CSDB in such a way that submitted tunes would automaticly be inserted into HVSC in some way.
The whole point would be that this would happen on a more realtime basis rather than periodical updates in HVSC.
Also i would rather have an emphasis on "new" tunes that have been composed recently and not the entire HVSC collection. What sense would it make competing with Rob Hubbard and Martin Galway after all ? :-)
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Yodelking
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 189 |
Quote: Well, my idea was integrating it with HVSC and CSDB in such a way that submitted tunes would automaticly be inserted into HVSC in some way.
The whole point would be that this would happen on a more realtime basis rather than periodical updates in HVSC.
Also i would rather have an emphasis on "new" tunes that have been composed recently and not the entire HVSC collection. What sense would it make competing with Rob Hubbard and Martin Galway after all ? :-)
I'd say a lot of the people of the VARIOUS dir can easily compete with Hubbard and Galway! There are a lot of talented composers under VARIOUS in HVSC.
It's fun if you make a page that holds some kind of top-lists. Whatever makes people listen to more "unknown" composers than just their top 5 composers is good. :) |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Blasphemy!! martin & rob = god :-)
Personal opinions are permitted though, hehe. |
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Yodelking
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 189 |
Quote: Blasphemy!! martin & rob = god :-)
Personal opinions are permitted though, hehe.
Funny you mention it, Blasphemy is actually one of my favourites! ;)
/VARIOUS/A-F/AMJ/Blasphemy.sid |
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Ben
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 163 |
Great idea! Making it accessible & organized decentralized would relieve maintainers from a sure burden + it will greatly contribute to the completeness.. Furthermore, I like the idea of the database being dynamic.
While you are at it: add multiple categories to vote for (sounds, melody, overall, innovativity, harmony et cetera), tune specs (e.g. duration, SID version), the STIL data (and hook it into search functionality), links to composer information and add both the .sid and a .prg file..
<edit>
Certainly this composers.c64.org site has a couple of the ideas I just mentioned already in place
</edit>
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psych
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 141 |
I propose another idea. It would be nice to see something like a competition where people could cast their votes and opinions on new tunes. Maybe some kind of ranking (charts) system could be good. what do you all think ? |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Thats basicly a part of the whole thing :-) i want to adapt the rating / commenting systems as seen on http://remix.kwed.org |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
IMHO it would make more sense to do this as a "sub section" of CSDB. If someone wants to really make this then he should start negotiations with Perff, and do the suitable interface(s) for the existing CSDB database.
- new sids could be right away uploaded to csdb, and noone stops you from adding the existing entries from HVSC. So we have the best from both sides: you can enter all the informations on csdb and be up to date, whilst using the existing HVSC collection.
- a few new querys could be added to csdb like: latest tunes, latest tune reviews, top of the week/month/all time, old/new sid search, etc., anything one can came up with. |
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Bamu®
Account closed
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 1332 |
This sounds very interesting!
Go on, go on! ;) |
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psych
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 141 |
Yes! This sound really good ! |
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Bamu®
Account closed
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 1332 |
Good idea! |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Sounds good! We're thinking about doing kind of a HVSC/SID portal for ages now, but couldn't find time or motivation so far. I also wanted to incorporate HVSC paths into CSDb rather early at the launch of CSDb, but it didn't really meet prominent support. Whatever you may decide and whoever may want to take on the project, I'd be into investing some spare time into this. So feel free to get back to me when things start moving. |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
I see this rather as a separate entity than being a subsection of CSDb / HVSC.
It would still be heavily interlinked with HVSC, CSDb and composers.c64.org but operating in its own domain, the focus entirely on SID Composers and their work.
If it would be incorporated into CSDb im afraid it would go under inbetween the 'normal' releases and everything else.
The sole target is the current and active SID composing scene. Older compositions could be incorporated into the charts and such, but the main focus should be a platform for the present day composers and their compositions. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
Stainless Steel, well I've tried to come up with an idea thats DOABLE, and not with some world domination plan :). Rather start out the project on a simple fast doable fashion, and later add extra stuff, than start with a mega plan with confusing details. I offered to use csdb with the idea to spare the need of an own server, and to spare to design an own database in mind. Ofcourse you can have it as an own page and not some sub csdb site, but under the hood still heavily rely on csdb. Also I dont think there's enough support for a totally new site, and ppl will add sid files and cross references like crazy themselfes. CSDB is a rock solid base to build your idea on, and you can spare a lot of work, and borrow the support from csdb users. Anyway I'm not offering help here, just trying to give advises. I think probably this is a project you will do alone, or noone will do it. Looking at the posts everyone likes the idea, but noone offered help.. :) |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
I am not unaware of the advantages of incorporating the idea into CSDb.
My original intention was something like the beforementioned http://remix.kwed.org or http://amigaremix.com , just for SID composers.
Nothing more, nothing less. (oh, also world domination ofcourse, too!) :-)
I appreciate the feedback so far, really.
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Bamu®
Account closed
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 1332 |
Actually, there aren't many SID composers that do remixes. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5094 |
hmm too bad this project did not took of. |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Due to a complete lack of time i havent gotten around to do anything, i still think its a great idea though. I havent given up yet. |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
I've started thinking about this again. I've been into C# / asp.net develompent workwise alot lately.
I thought I might practice a bit at home (Also with some AJAX) and I remembered this idea I had a couple of years ago.
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Ok, i will tell my old plan now, since joe has awakened the topic.
1 year ago i registered www.sidwave.com
for a purpose very similar to this.
the original plan was made in 2000 as an exam project for which i got max grade. (there was a minimal website, with all basic features)
but it has floated to think it through, and form the prototype, down in a document, so it gets solid..
as i read Joe's post, i realize, it will be foolish to attempt to make it by myself, coz i have so many things to do and it will take too long.
well, so here goes:
sidwave - the home of c64 composers
purpose: spreading and networking around the music created
features:
artist profile
downloads
radio shows
community, best elements of facebook techniques
forums:
sound creation
music theory/technique/composing
players (coding, use of)
editors (coding, use of)
competitions, theme based, freestyle
and much much more
all that we can think of
To get this baby going, we need:
1) hosting
2) php coders (i volunteer)
Phase 1: implementation of basic features, like:
artist profile
upload/download
forum
if we just go 1.0 with these 3 things, then the ball is rolling.
Phase 2: integration with hvsc and csdb
Phase 3: the rest of the features
RFC ? |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Update: Joe and me started the initial brainstorming phase.
If you sit out there and feel you can do or want to do something in a project like this, mail joe or me. |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
I started working on this again, after it being brought to my attention recently.
There is a site framework up and running here for anyone interested in participating.
Cheers
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
ok, so i am there. but i cannot make a post in the forum :) |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
I´ll come up with a design soonish, stay tuned! |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3198 |
500!
Type 'ASP.modules_whosonline_whosonline_aspx' does not inherit from 'System.Web.UI.UserControl'.
etcetc |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Well, i'm still working on it and there isnt any seperated dev/test/live environment. Bare with me.
I took the faulting module out. Should work now. But intermittent server errors are bound to happen due to dev/bugfix process. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
my user has vanished...
:) |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Hm please sign up again. Conrad, Hermit and Veto's accounts are still there. Dunno what happened. |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
The rambones.filter.notch(tm) is responsible for that, I guess :) |
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Hermit
Registered: May 2008
Posts: 208 |
Server fails momentarily, I guess you're midifying it. So I'll post my thought regarding in-browser-SID-emulation here.
The conversion to Wav/Mp3 or even SIDrip into a client-side temp-storage upon opening a SID file is a good idea by Joe. If the conversion fills the buffer, the SID file could be fast-forwarded/rewinded in all its length:) Nice feature would be of course, but requires to know the length of a particular SID file subtune:
Since SID exists, I really wonder why SID format lacks the playing time/looping time (length in seconds) of SID tunes. At least it should be signed in the description/title for uploaded HVSC SIDs, which wouldn't cause any incompatibility issues backwards.
I think when you design the database for this SID-page, there should be an (ignorable) field for the length of the SID tunes, and when somebody uploads a tune, the length could be stored in the database, or even in the SID's built-in textdata itself.
Or another linking could be done to SLDB (Songlength database) of HVSC...
Anyway, if TinySID is not the best, what about JSIDPlay for in-browser sid-listening?
http://jsidplay2.sourceforge.net/
http://www.dreamfabric.com/c64/jsidplay/
I had no experience with it to compare to resid, maybe not as full, but is worth checkin' :)
Maybe the easiest could be play tunes with a link to their mp3 SOASC repository entry, until the emulation isn't realized.
Hermit Software Hungary |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Again i'm very sorry for the downtime. I will try to set up a second dev site on the webserver to avoid these problems.
BTW Linus has sent me a design draft that looks very promising. |
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rattus
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 14 |
Why is my account closed on previous post ? |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Wut ?
Anyways, i seem to have screwed up the site config again. Registration is temporarily unavailable. Will fix it as soon as i get back home. |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Back home, registration is fixed. yadda yadda. |
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TNT
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 189 |
Quoting HermitAnyway, if TinySID is not the best, what about JSIDPlay for in-browser sid-listening?
http://jsidplay2.sourceforge.net/
http://www.dreamfabric.com/c64/jsidplay/
I had no experience with it to compare to resid, maybe not as full, but is worth checkin' :)
I heard there's a site which allows you listen some SIDs with either JSIDPlay or JSIDPlay2 so you can check them yourself... ;) |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Looks interesting though it doesnt seem to actually play the music on my machine for some reason.
I can hear some initial click when i hit play but no music is playing.
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
Same here, no sound on Lemon in IE (javascript error), but it works in Firefox.
also: http://jsidplay2.sourceforge.net/jsidplay2.html
emulation uses same engine as sidplay2 it seems. |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3198 |
It's java, nothing to add. |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Well, i even resorted to trying it with IE8 (i usually work with chrome), but still no playback.
It just clicks slightly when i hit play and then silence.
I'm running win7 64Bit btw.
Any ideas? My java says it's up to date already.
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kenchis
Registered: Jan 2008
Posts: 65 |
Maybe you should try to download version 2.0
and start it from the command line to find out,
if it works in general.
To find out the problem with the browser version
it is worth to watch the java console window, which pops up
in the quick launch panel.
There is a chance that you got an exception stack trace there.
Would be interesting for me to find out what happened.
Btw, i got a bug ticket using Java 6 update 22 for the browser version. I start to hate applets.
Regards,
Ken
Searching for a SID player, that fits your needs?
http://jsidplay2.sourceforge.net/jsidplay2.jnlp |
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TNT
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 189 |
Quoting Stainless/ParamountAny ideas? My java says it's up to date already.
Go back to Java 6u21. Update 22 changelog has a note saying
Quote:The fix for CVE-2010-3560 could cause certain Java applets running in the new Java Plug-in to stop working if they are embedded in web pages which contain JavaScript that calls into Java in order to perform actions which require network security permissions. and that's what I believe happened at Lemon64. |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
See, thats just one of the reasons why i hate java. |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Just confirming, with the Java 6u21 version it works. |
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Devia
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 401 |
say what?! JAVA works?!? |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
RUMORS! |
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kenchis
Registered: Jan 2008
Posts: 65 |
Just to let you know, the issue using Java 6u22 has been fixed.
Searching for a SID player, that fits your needs?
http://jsidplay2.sourceforge.net/jsidplay2.jnlp |
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Perplex
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 255 |
Quoting kenchisI start to hate applets.
I got a head start on you of about 12 years, then. :-P
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
I think i'm having some permissions issues while trying to get the Java applet working on my Windows7/IIS7.Does anyone have a clue about applet signing? |
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kenchis
Registered: Jan 2008
Posts: 65 |
Maybe you can give us some details about the problem?
I do not have Win7, i use Vista here.
The jars that i provide are signed.
Searching for a SID player, that fits your needs?
http://jsidplay2.sourceforge.net/jsidplay2.jnlp |
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Hermit
Registered: May 2008
Posts: 208 |
Have you seen this? A Flash Player 10 based SID player project!!! :)
http://unitzeroone.com/blog/2009/02/12/playing-with-alchemy-c64..
http://www.unitzeroone.com/labs/tinysidflash/
-----------------------------
Hermit Software Hungary |
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Sander
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 496 |
Quote: Have you seen this? A Flash Player 10 based SID player project!!! :)
http://unitzeroone.com/blog/2009/02/12/playing-with-alchemy-c64..
http://www.unitzeroone.com/labs/tinysidflash/
-----------------------------
Hermit Software Hungary
Yes - it's a bit old by now actually, guess it was ditched.
Speaking of which - how is this project going? The website preview seems down. Stainless? |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Ive had a litte trouble with my computer so the site is offline currently.
I have the javasidplayer working though. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1648 |
...but the title of this discussion thread is still fucking useless. :) |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Major hardware failure (hd down) made os reinstallation necessary. Have to reinstall web/sql server.
Until then, the site is offline.
Also the WebFramework i'm using doesnt really support AJAX integration so i'm going to have to find something else. |
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Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 849 |
Any more news on this project?
Sounded like a nice idea to me. |
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
A couple of hard drive crashes and a divorce later, it's still zip.
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