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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
goattracker instruments and/or .sng files
hi all..
I was wondering if anyone was willing to share their sounds and/or .sng files for goattracker?
So far I've only finished one tune using goattracker, my x2006 entry "One Flu over the X2006", but so far I am enjoying this tracker now that i've gotten more used to it.
However.. I am clueless and helpless when it comes to creating sounds, and since it has the option for inserting sounds by loading, I was hoping for some help from you guys..
I was hoping to make a nice melodic and slow sid, however with the standard .sng files that come with the player I can't seem to find any really smoothish or gentle sounds.. (well, not unless you count 'gliding' the sounds.. but that was not was I was trying to do)
ehm.. if this sound totally weird.. as example the sounds in the first 2 minutes of "summer heat" by Dwayne Bakewell (which is a dmc 4.0 if i'm not mistaken) are a good example of what I would be looking for.
but anything softish/smoothish/whistly would do..
(sigh.. I hope someone understands what i mean here)
and besides that, ANY other sounds or sng files would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Tim
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Bamu®
Account closed
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 1332 |
Cadaver, guess you are the right man for this problem? |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
There are demotunes included in the goattracker 2 release. |
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
Quote: There are demotunes included in the goattracker 2 release.
hmm yes.. true.. but here I could not find what i was looking for.. all sounds there seem to be more powerfull, rougher then i'd like..
sigh.. hard to explain what i mean sorry :( |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
perhaps what is needed is a tutorial for instrument construction. Once you understand it, you could make your own soft/mellow instruments.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
isnt "soft" mostly about using long/slow attack and sinus-like (ie triangle) wave? thats what i would do anyway =) |
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
@style:
Hmm.. yes and no..
People have tried to teach me in the past, but it seams like I simply can't remember or just get frustrated at the complexity :(
Some years back someone gave me a whole diska+b of sounds to use in dmc 5.0.. but.. that editor did not have the keyboard function that I loved so much in dmc 1.2 and later dmc 4.0.. so long story short.. I made one sid, took me 4 weeks to do and sounded like crap.. the last I ever did was in dmc 4.0 in 1998.
Then I discovered goattracker.. perfect.. It had the tracker format.. no more endless timing problems with snd.00 dur.04 c-0, snd.01 dur.02 c-0 etc.etc. because its a tracker and basically an answer to my prayers..
It works on my laptop.. its tracker based.. it has the option to load samples.. perfect..
So I did a little comeback sid in this editor, released that on the x-2006, and was actually quite happy with the result although it still is more or less just playing around a bit with some effects to learn the player.. but of course the sounds were taken from a demo song for which I am very grateful!
I have always loved to make sids and mostly just for the fun of it.. you can check my hvsc directory, its almost empty.. that doesnt mean I never did more, I have some 40 or 50 sids which I simply never finished or released.. but I had tons of fun making them :)
I am quite sure that if there were sample disks available for goattracker also a lot more people would be sidding for the fun of it.. seriously.. take this example: I can easily count numerous friends or acquaintances that at one point owned an amiga 500 and at some point or another used pro-tracker without even knowing there was a scene on amiga just for the fun of it.
So.. why not create a basic pack of sounds for goattracker?
It would make me very happy :) and possibly a lot of wannabe sidders too that just dont understand how to make the sounds (or dont have the patience, or simply are not that musical)
Ah ehm.. sorry.. just realized that I have been typing way to much :)
Hope you understand my dilemma?
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
you pretty much sound like i felt when i looked at a sid editor (future composer =D) long time ago... but really, you should take your time to create sounds from scratch, IMHO. (after doing it myself, i dont think its that terribly hard anyway) |
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
hehe.. you'd think that after using future composer, romuzak, dmc 1.2, dmc 4.0, dmc 5.0 and goattracker that I would have learnt by now eh?
sigh.. |
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Bamu®
Account closed
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 1332 |
The funny thing is that there are ENDLESS possibilities of creating instruments. So, a tutorial probably wouldn't help.
Anyway, I have tons of saved *.ins files (about 230), but I'm not sure if I should share them with others. :)
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
Creating a tune from scratch, including the instruments you need helps building experience in both using the pattern editor and the instrument editor. |
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Turtle
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 70 |
Hey, composition is only one part that makes a tune distinctable. The other part is the set of instruments. I think that your tunes can even be more 'Bordeaux-esque'. So take your time to create your own original instruments. |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
If you really want the sounds DJB used in the nice tune Summer Heat then load it up in DMC 4 (at least one version will work with it) and check out the tables and ADSR info. It shouldn't be too hard to get working in GT. |
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
@Nata
Some of your songs that I would be interested in are Evolution_303 and Metal Crack for the hypah sounds and Sweet Dominique for the waves sound in the beginning of the track.
I would appreciate if you would want to share them, but of course I respect anyone not wanting to share their sounds.
@Hein
Obviously true Hein.. but I am not classically trained. I only had 4 years of music school during the age of 6 to 10.. so the struggle of actually composing something from scratch is tremendously tough. Also the lack of any talent does not help (I never excelled in anything but just did everything from cracking to coding to sids to graphics to megaswapping to.. well, anything that was fun and in one way or the other helpful to my groups).
I keep ending up making nice little jingles of 30 to 40 seconds and am left clueless on how to turn these bits of sid into a tune, let alone think of attempting to create a specific sound.
When I think back of my old amiga 500 it was so much easier and I actually made quite some nice tunes using samples. I still curse the two days that (a) a virus destroyed my a500 disks and (b) my ex-girlfriend in a jealous rage destroyed the only cassette tape that I had of my old mod files :(
@Turtle
Oh your so true.. for instance I fell in love with PVCFs sounds from Radio Napalm probably the main reason why I love the 8580 actually :). My head spun in thousands of directions and ideas to use those effects. I used them in a few of my tracks and actually old friend Eco modified them a bit for me.
After my first attempts, the most complex thing I ever tried to do was a tune for AEG who had asked me to make something special for a trackmo some years back. I had worked months on it, but after loosing the disk with some 8+ minutes version of the sid that I was working on I got so pissed and abandoned the whole idea. (also read reaction to hein.. composing without having knowledge of skills takes such tremendous amounts of time).
So I guess you are right.. you all are for that matter.. but all I wanted was a standard set of instruments to make some average tunes.. I seriously doubt Id ever be good enough to create unique pieces of work Im afraid.
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
Don't let skills get in the way nor lesser training. If we all stopped because of that then far less would have been produced. I know I have similar issues as you when it comes to music - I have a few MB of work files of various stages and almost nothing comes out of it. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Let me point to something. The Soundmonitor by Chris Hülsbeck was a revolution to the scene, because everybody could use it, and save out the sounds to use in their own tunes. So people swapped instruments. This was also the case on Amiga with MODs.
It would do a lot for the music scene, if there was a large library of sounds for Goattracker.
So go ahead, swap those instruments! |
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Bamu®
Account closed
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 1332 |
@Bordeaux
Bordeaux wrote:
"composing without having knowledge of skills takes such tremendous amounts of time"
Hmm, yes! This sounds familiar to me :D
Anyway, I think the best for you is to use Cadavers (questionable :-D ) SIDDUMP. It allows YOU to *rip* instruments from your favourite SID tunes. Just write it's output to a txt file. Example batch: siddump *.sid > output.txt
I have listened to your song and I can say that it's instruments are quite OK.
F.ex you have used such a drum-sound:
81 C8 (C-6)
41 A4 (C-3)
41 A0 (G#2)
40 A2 (A#2)
40 9C (E-2)
40 9A (D-2)
40 98 (C-2)
40 96 (A#1)
40 94 (G#1)
FF 00
Try to manipulate it and see what happens:
- change ADSR (f.ex to 00F8)
- change the first waveform ($81) to $21, $41, $51 or $61 and change the pitch to something like $AA
- you can try to make the wavetable shorter (Usually 6 frames are enough in single-speed)
- instead of $41 $40 waveform you could use $11. (sounds a lot more professional)
Or, you can filter the drum-sound (if you use wavetable with $41 sound):
90 F1
00 50
00 40
00 30
00 20
00 10
00 05
FF 00
However, this is only my own taste of *good* instruments. :D |
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Graham
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 990 |
On Amiga people swapped instruments because hardly anyone owned a sampler. For SID instruments you don't need a sampler :) |
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
@stryyker
True so true.. I try to remind myself that actually finishing 1 in a 1000 sids actually does give a very satisfying sensation. For instance, I can listen to my sid Glory_Days and being my worst critic find hundreds of points where I would have liked to change something, but still it gives me a killer smile listening to it. Plus it is fun listening back to all the unfinished work.. sometimes they remind me of 30 seconds tv or radio commercial break jingles ;)
@rambones
Exactly what I was thinking
@nata
Actually I used the sounds from one of the demo songs Covert Opts in 2D (funktempo) by Cadaver.
I dont know what that program you mentioned does.. but interesting!
It looks more or less what you wrote, just slightly different though.
81 c8
41 14
41 10
40 12
40 0c
40 0a
40 08
40 06
40 04
40 02
ff 00
I will have a look around for that program, thanks for the tip!
@graham
Yes and no.. a good sampler was very expensive. And if I remember correctly amongst the more elite/known modders it was considered a sin to use samples which were not your own, or without permission or at least credits.
However.. the availability of the samples (or simply ripping a mod with action replay and loading into a tracker) led to a low threshold for people to become creative. Come on, I am quite sure that a lot (!) of c64 sceners have tried and failed to make sids.. especially if you have to use a teach-it-yourself method.. its just not as easy as for example starting koala paint and placing a few lines and pixels for the first time.
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Karoshier
Account closed
Registered: May 2010
Posts: 15 |
Quote: perhaps what is needed is a tutorial for instrument construction. Once you understand it, you could make your own soft/mellow instruments.
Now there is a tutorial on the matter. I am no musician, therefore I cannot judge the material, but it helped me getting up and running with GT.
I'm posting it here in this 6 years old thread as it maybe can help further people doing a search on the forum for "goattracker instruments".
http://supersole.net/blog/post/99-learning-goattracker-2-patter.. |
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Magnar
Registered: Aug 2009
Posts: 61 |
Okey...
* First of all, I haven't read all the posts in this thread (first mistake)
* And secondly, I am mainly replying because of the topic is interesting (second mistake?:)
I've composed music on the C64 now for years. My first tunes was released back in the 1980's, and my latest at X2012.
But the thing is;
I still don't get how to make good instruments. :)
Some of you guys out there are SID instrument making gods. I can listen to 1x speed songs in demos or other productions, and some instruments are just out of this world - and I have no clue how you managed to do it.
So, based on that fact, I can clearly see why Bordeaux is asking for help on the matter.
Understanding the basic of AD/SR, filter types and resonance, different waveforms etc is not so hard for me. I usually get that.
But understanding how to make the perfect waveform table with outstanding pulse sweeps (and combined with filtersweeps) might not be such obviously for me.
I don't know if Bordeaux also is struggling here or not, but I usually just try random numbers in goattracker for where to start the pulse (high,low byte), and then I just increase and decrease the pulse randomly without actually understanding how it works from a overall sound perspective. I am really just doing try and fail scenarios until I am getting somewhere close to what I find acceptable for use. It is not because I know in my mind what I want, and then knows exactly how to punch in the right waveform table and pulse table in order to archive that special lead, or arp chord sound etc...
I guess, what I am asking for, is a better explaination of use of the waveforms and pulse combinations. Where in the pulse register it would be best to sweep for leads and such. I know quite a lot about it - but not all.
Because.. In the end of the day, there are so many songs that have extremely nice instruments; And I cannot on the fly after a listen go into Goattracker and redo them likeways.
If you can, you're one of the SID instrument gods I mentioned above. Care to share experience and views on the matter? I'm interested.. :)
Cheers Magnar |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Magnar: Taking the liberty to reply though I'm not that good.
Experimenting is the only way to learn, really. Pulse sweeps are quite intuitive; basically the pulse width is ranging between $000 and $fff with $800 being 50/50. I find it helps to visualize the waveform and its motion in your head. After that it's just a matter of learning the difference in sound between fast sweeps and slow sweeps, and what effects you get starting at unbalanced and balanced widths respectively.
Filters require much more trial and error to learn what works and what doesn't. I mainly target the 8580 since it's much more capable filter wise. A couple of frames of combined bandpass + highpass with full resonance can give your drum sounds an extra punch for example, but beware of clicks, especially ones that you don't hear in Goat Tracker due to different register write timing than on a C64!
Generally I don't know what to say other than that it requires heaps of experimentation to learn what sounds good and what doesn't. Studying the bundled example tunes should be enough to grasp some cool tricks, and from there it's just experience. For every tune I've released there are probably ten or more that I've scrapped, and I've slowly improved my technique over time, just by trying out everything I can think of. Nowadays there are very few sounds that I don't immediately get at least a basic idea about how to make. |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
What RadiantX said plus ... I can't stress enough how important it is to never be satisfied with your instruments and keep on tweaking them just a little more ^^ You wouldn't believe how often I loop a single sound monitoring it thoroughly on rather flat sounding headphones.
Like, "yeah, that's a decent snare, but let's see what happens if I lower the cutoff range of the bandpass filter just a tiny bit on the third frame, add another snare with appropriate frequency table on voice two but only filter frame one and four of that second voice. Uh, ringmod and/or sync might work, using $5X from voice two modulating the $4X carrier on voice one, frame 3." You get the idea ;)
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Dane
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 423 |
Trial and error. And once you stumble across something that sounds nice, keep it in mind for future reference.
I know some of you check other people's tunes for good ideas and I'm not opposed to it - simply too lazy to go there myself.
Also, study the docs for your editor of choice - if it can handle umpteen different effects in the arpeggio-table there's probably a reason - meaning you can take advantage of stuff like that to control your instruments with more precision.
Having said that, I still fumble and use random combinations when setting up sounds for a new worktune. (Normally work from REALLY simple instruments and then alter, twist and modify) You can find some examples on Soundcloud if you're interested. |
