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Rattus
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 34 |
Gallup...
What editor do you use when composing your sid-tunes ?
I use JCH-ed v.3.04 (the Action Replay patched one). I have tried to use john player, but dunno... Maybe JCH still rules... SID rules anyway 4ever :)
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 475 |
i'm using jch 3.04 by djb as well and i don't think i'll convert to anything else anytime soon. sdi seems tempting, but i'm too much of a lazy sod to actually learn a newer system, now that i can use jch blindfolded with my hands tied to the back.
i used john player for half a year, but the lack of a packer for the latest version made me stick to jch.
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
I'm using SDI by Glenn Rune and Geir Tjelta, because it seems to be the easiest one, and has full power in sounds like JCH.
I used JCH before, but recording from keyboard in it, teased me.
In the old days I used soundmonitor, because it was the only program I had. Well I had Electrosound also, but that is for hitech people :-)
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deizi
Account closed
Registered: May 2003
Posts: 95 |
for me, (still as a beginner) i use GT... but i'm looking forward to compose on real 64 (sdi or future composer)... |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 465 |
I was too lazy to learn the tracker system after learning on DMC4. I use a modded version of SYNC. |
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Luca
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 178 |
I'm too lazy to connect the c64, hence I use the plus/4+SIDcard version of SIDwinder V01.23, coded by TLC of Coroners from the original source made by Taki of Natural Beat. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 456 |
Goat Tracker. It may not have the most powerful player available (although newest versions have a lot of features necessary), but it certainly has the easiest editor (only Odin Tracker can compete, but nobody uses it, and for a good reason - check the length of packed files). Talented people can squeeze _much_ out of GT (sound-wise) - take a listen to Hein's or Jammer's works. |
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Turtle
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 70 |
@Randall: I agree 100% with you. Since the latest version offers Funk-Tempo you can simply polish your songs with this tempo-variation. Furthermore it has an easy-to-use editor. All of my current tunes are done with GT, too. But in my opinion, when you think as a coder you can do more complex sounds (pulse,filter, etc.) easier in any editor than a pure musician. Although complex sounds are only one fragment of a good tune. Variable arrangement and a catchy melody are the things that make a tune worth listening to, even after many years. The Galways and Hubbards of that time were surely good in thinking logarithmic, but they had the flow that made their tunes real classics. |
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Longhair
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 3 |
I'm using HardTrack Composer :) Do you know why? :) |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
I use JCH. Normally edit songs/player in Turbo Assembler until I get what I want out of it. Things that bother me can be the maximum of 32 instruments and max 256 bytes of wave/freq table. Apart from that it has everything I need. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 456 |
256 bytes of wavetable???
Goat Tracker has 512 bytes long wavetable and it's much less than what I need (perhaps I should blame the simplified multispeed player? or my profligate use of the wavetable :>). |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Well, I have macros for arpeggiospeed so no need to typ 07 07 07 07 03 03 03 03 00 00 00 00 and so on. Can just do 07/41 03/41 00/41 7E/04 7F/LOOP It's just that in tunes with a LOT of different chords I run out of wavetable sometimes. My fault for using chords with 4 or more notes instead of the simplistic 3 (or even 2!).
Been thinking about a version which also utilizes the second half of the filtertable for chords etc. Might do it if I need it for anything. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 456 |
That's my problem as well. I utilize a lot of chords with added 6s, 7s, 9s, sus chords etc. Which eats wavetable space for breakfast, 'coz in GT you don't have a command "repeat each arp value x times". Hence, with speed multiplier 3x or higher, it's impossible to let yourself go free with instrument programming in GT.
Well each and every player has its limitations... |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Well, my only concern would be that a wavetable with more than 256 bytes would need two index bytes - lobyte and hibyte for the wanted arpeggio. I thought about merging it into one byte where lowest bit would indicate if wave table 0000-00FE or 0100-01fe is in use. That would mean you could only start arpeggios on even bytes (00,02,04 etc) but that should be ok.
Ok, next time I'm optimizing the player for something I'll have a look at this. Sounds easy enough. Only problem is the editor wouldn't support it. |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Question: Is there an editor that lets you change filter envelope midway through an instrument - like say in the wavetable or filtertable?
I've had an idea about implementing this but dunno how useful it would be since only 8580 let's you get away with it without horrendous click sounds. |
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Longhair
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 3 |
Dane: If you will use two 256b tabels, first for wave, second for transposition, then you need only one index byte :) |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 456 |
Quote: Question: Is there an editor that lets you change filter envelope midway through an instrument - like say in the wavetable or filtertable?
I've had an idea about implementing this but dunno how useful it would be since only 8580 let's you get away with it without horrendous click sounds.
GT has it. (I thought it is rather a basic feature... Dunno if I understood you well, though) It's quite useful to have, let's say, a mixed kick+bass sound where kick is filtered with $5, cutoff $02, and bass filtered with $1, cutoff descending from $0a to $02. For example. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933 |
Quote: Question: Is there an editor that lets you change filter envelope midway through an instrument - like say in the wavetable or filtertable?
I've had an idea about implementing this but dunno how useful it would be since only 8580 let's you get away with it without horrendous click sounds.
A switch between combined bits like lowpass+bandpass -> lowpass+highpass or lowpass -> bandpass+lowpass doesnt give clicks.. I could be wrong, but the clicks are hardly noticable with bitcombinations. (Allthough seperate bitswitches are idd annoying)
Unfortunately bitcombinations like lowpass+bandpass+highpass sound very distorted on a 6581r4.. (but the frequencies are more dynamic on other sidmodels) |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Thanks for info Hein. I like experimenting with filter encelopes as well. Though it's sad that you need like 4-5 C64s to check the actual filter sounds, and you'll still have the occasional computer with 'odd' filters. |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Quote: GT has it. (I thought it is rather a basic feature... Dunno if I understood you well, though) It's quite useful to have, let's say, a mixed kick+bass sound where kick is filtered with $5, cutoff $02, and bass filtered with $1, cutoff descending from $0a to $02. For example.
I wouldn't say it's a standard feature, no. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 456 |
So GT is not as simple editor as some people think it is. But still, the best thing about it is probably the screen resolution :) |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Think why I haven't seen much of players with filter envelope swapped midway though instruments is probably due to 1. saving space, 2. saving r-time. Agree, it doesn't exactly eat cycles, but I suppose it's one of those functions people never really found useful - clicks might have discouraged - and so it was scrapped. Most players seem to be aimed at the demo-scene so need to be fairly optimized as well.
Anyway, doing some tests with it this weekend - think it's time for a version of JCH with 512 byte wave-table and flexible envelopes. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 456 |
But as the time flew by and there was an increasing need for as flexible and powerful player as possible?... Does SDI have it? (I doubt it for Glenn uses 6581 AFAIR) |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
No, time flew by and we got better at coding :) I will of course include that stuff in a demo-friendly player. |
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Turtle
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 70 |
Quote: That's my problem as well. I utilize a lot of chords with added 6s, 7s, 9s, sus chords etc. Which eats wavetable space for breakfast, 'coz in GT you don't have a command "repeat each arp value x times". Hence, with speed multiplier 3x or higher, it's impossible to let yourself go free with instrument programming in GT.
Well each and every player has its limitations...
Hmmm, GT can delay the next arp for x frames by using values 01h-07h as the waveform, so you can sapre some bytes in multispeed tunes. Filterusage is powerful aswell, according to my needs. The only things I have on my wishlist (how matching just before christmas) are more flexible possibilities for manipulating waveform (i.e. non-linear wavetable programming), tempos and vibratos. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 456 |
"GT can delay the next arp for x frames by using values 01h-07h as the waveform" - really? Shiiit. Would have saved me a lot of painful combinations if I had known that earlier. RTFM, as they say. |
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Turtle
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 70 |
Quote: "GT can delay the next arp for x frames by using values 01h-07h as the waveform" - really? Shiiit. Would have saved me a lot of painful combinations if I had known that earlier. RTFM, as they say.
At least the current version 1.52 is capable of this feature. |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 456 |
Gosh. I'm astonished with both my stupidity and Cadaver's professional attitude towards his applications. Three cheers to him. |
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Turtle
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 70 |
At least I would confirm your second statement... This proggy is great!!! If Cadaver only would change his mind according to my wishlist... |
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6R6
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 244 |
The new SDI player I am coding ( Listen to Club69.sid from x2004) contains some filter stuff where i use channel 4 to control the filter.. it can be used to switch filter Highpass, Lowpass, Band-pass ... that will click on 6581's
... and its still under construction...
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Bamu®
Account closed
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 1332 |
Quote: I'm using HardTrack Composer :) Do you know why? :)
I'm wonder if there is a manual for it (in english of course)... |
