| | Sasq
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 156 |
Comics
I was reading the emu-thread and happily discovered that several people here are interested in comics, and good ones at that :) I thought I'd start a new thread instead of commenting there since there where already several complaints about staying on topic.
Anyway, Grant Morrison is one of the best Writers around, together with the other three big "M":s; Frank Miller, Peter Milligan and Alan Moore.
Someone mentioned his old DC-stuff and then I have to say that his early Animal Issues are among the best he's ever written, especially the story "The Coyote Gospel" which is incredible.
I also have all issues of Invisibles which is good but actually becomes a bit _too_ weird after a while.
S:t Switching Day has been re-released quite recently, I have it - I didn't enjoy it that much though.
I have almost everything Frank Miller has done, except "Give Me Liberty" which I only have in Swedish (2000+) - anyone wants to sell english issues or paperback? :)
Other great stuff: Strangers In Paradise, Concrete, Grendel Tales, Skreemer (Milligan)
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| | goldfish
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 18 |
In my opinion, one of the most significant US comics is the Judge Dredd story where a referendum is held on the matter of the mere existence of the judges.
Some "democratic" groups made alot of noise and forced the referendum to be held, the choise being between the existing judges-system and a democraticly elected system.
Everybody, not in the least the media, was convinced the "democratic" alternative would be chosen by the society at large, because everybody hated the judges and their rather brutal way of upholding the law.
Ah, and then the silent majority spoke...
Of course, only God's law counts for real.
But then again, God is not the forgiving kind...
GDF [l]
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| | TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Well, I've already stated I'm a big fan of Grant's work as well, having his complete Animal Man, Doom Patrol, Invisibles & New X-Men run, as well as lots of other work. Recently I started downloading scans of comics, and right now I'm reading his JLA run (which is good, but I prefer his X-men: then again I've been a Marvel zombie since I was young, and X-men has been my preferred choice since the early 90's).
I also dig Bendis, a lot. Daredevil, Alias, Powers .. what's not to like? And mr. Warren Ellis ofcourse, whose Planetary is really amongst the best work out there.
One of these days I'll post a list of tpb's I own and blow you all away :)
Goldfish: Judge Dredd is English I think .. 2000AD. Never was really into, although yes, I did take my name from it :) |
| | Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Oh yeah, this is a thread for me too. I'm an X-men fan, and that has lead me to other stuff as well via the creators. Morrison has grown on me, and my fav comic from him has got to be Zenith.
I also like Ellis' Authority, and right now I'm trying (hard) to dig Bendis' Ultimate titles. |
| | _V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
Well, let me add a little more flavor to the topic. I'll let you know up front that the US comics archetype is not my thing. Their usually superficial nature, both graphically and storywise isn't exactly inspiring to me. It's understandable of course, the monthly frequency by which they're released imposes certain restrictions on the creativity of the artist (and possible script writer). Same sentiment about Japanese comics.
Hmm, so what's left then? Eurotrash, of course. Bilal, Moebius, Berthet, Charlier, Swolfs, Schuiten, Frank, van Hamme, Vance, Franquin, Le Gall, Michetz, Yslaire, Franz, Falque, Dodier, ...
I love the simple line, the clarity, yet so detailed. There usually is a raw, emotional edge to their work, unless everthing had to be intentionally artificial. True mastery of the parchment and the quill. Most of all, though, I love the great storytelling of the series created by these artists (to be attributed to their equally able script writers). They manage to put down a convincing, immersive universe where every little detail makes sense - if not now, then in the following tomes.
I love how they pick up an entire story created by the script writer, and then artisanally translate it to images. Not a care in the world about how much time it takes to complete a tome. No monthly releases here, or not even every three months - when it's ready, it's ready. And once the story is completed, the series ends. No 'let's add something here, or milk as much money out of this series as we can'. The reader knows when the series ended - any additional part eventually feels superficial and an 'add-on'.
(yes, some series tried this - they usually failed unless a new story was created)
Apart from the commercial work, I'm also quite into underground comics, where artists just go insane. That's a flipside one needs to consider as well to maintain a healthy artistical spirit. This includes US underground - I've seen some great stuff from overseas.
The last genre where I tolerate the US comics is all about humour. Charlie Brown and Calvin & Hobbes are just as funny as Guust Flater and Asterix & Obelix.
I'll end with a few links (most are french, but they come with pretty pictures):
(publishers)
www.glenat.com
www.dupuis.com (offers language selection)
www.dargaud.com
(artists)
bilal.enki.free.fr
www.stardom.fr
www.lambiek.net/hislaire.htm (search Google for Yslaire to get more hits - they'll prolly be french, though)
Those are my two cents - don't forget to add the Eurotrash into the comics equation. |
| | goldfish
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 18 |
Moebius (Jean Giraud) made a Silver Surfer album once, so there's a Euro-US connection right there.
And Judge, I guess I see the Anglo-American culture as one, hence the wrong geographical reference in my post.
GDF
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| | _V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
Ah well, when you're young, you tend to play a little with different ideas and styles... I wouldn't call it a connection per se, more an experiment. I'm glad Moebius saw the light in the end, eventually. :)
Sad, but true: commercially, manga outperforms any other comics genre 8 to 1. This isn't only true in the States, same goes for Europe, too - Glenat's sales results show that its manga line sells WAY beyond the Grafica series. The only thing holding up is Titeuf, which I wouldn't even call a 'good' comic.
There must be some psychological attraction about the manga style that gives it its success, especially with kids and adolescents. Because its easy-access? Because for most people, it's still an 'exotic' product? Maybe the inane themes speak to the youth... I know it spoke to me some time ago, but you also tend to grow out of it fairly quickly. |
| | TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
I grew up on European comics myself too ofcourse (Asterix, Lucky Luke, Suske & Wiske, Olivier Blunder and ofcourse Kuifje (Tintin), but thanks to the collection of my uncle (he had lots of b&w Marvel comics in Dutch from the 60's & 70's) I also got a taste for the American stuff pretty early. Funny thing is that since then I've always preferred Marvel to DC. I've been a 'real' collector since the early 90's, got tons of comics stored in boxes. A while ago I traded 500 of them for a special tpb discount, which gave some room. Unfortunately some of those I should have kept, like the last issues of X-Man.
Goldfish, I read that Silver Surfer by Moebius once, it was beautiful. I always felt the American artist Ladronn was heavily influenced by him. He did some great work for Marvel a few years ago.
The only European comics I really would like to start collecting is Metabarons. My brother has a couple of those, and they're pretty good.
Alas, it's mostly American stuff I have right now. I've compiled a list of my tpb's and ogn's, if people want I can post it here (it's pretty extensive though). |
| | Matt
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 598 |
I completely agree with _V_ here.
you ever heard about aldebaran or betelgueze?
or murena? samber (published by glenat)? djinn? the killer? ...
well I'm into these styles of comics.
just way too many to name them all, really.
you mentioned enki bilal; he's an awesome artist, got two albums from him: 32 december & sleep of the monster. I'm also a fan of servais and van hamme (scenarist of XIII, chninkel, largo winch, wayne shelton, ...).
my latest buy was auschwitz from croci. that album is so realistic it gives me the chills.
no superheroes for me though.
TDJ: I started reading the metabarons but it's just not my stuff.
oh yeah, it's a pretty expensive hobby but it's definitely worth any €cent!
and yes, it all started with jommeke and suske & wiske :D |
| | TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
But please be aware that some 'superhero' comics can be quite deep as well. I guess about half the tpb's I own are superhero-related, and yes, some of those are just 'fun', but everybody who has ever read "Watchmen", "Doom Patrol", "Animal Man" (Coyote Gospel, Sasq already mentioned it) or "Top Ten" knows that a lot can be done with them. |
| | _V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
Yeah, I've started with them, too. Ahh, to be 8 again. Those were the days. Suske en Wiske, De Rode Ridder (them were some sexy babes for that time, man! ;), Robert en Bertrand, Jommeke, Kuifje, Robbedoes, de Blauwbloezen and so many more. The cool thing about these comics is their deceptive simplicity... they look easy to draw, but to create an entire, believable world in that style is quite hard. That's why I really respect Herge, Nys and van der Steen.
A few years later, a comics library openened in my neighbourhood, and I got to read the entire series of each of these strips. Wee. Then I discovered my first 'big people' comics, most notably Storm (Helloooooo hyperrealistic drawing :), Blueberry and Blake and Mortimer by Jacobs, which became my new personal benchmark (at the time). Although often, I wondered where the drawings were in between all that text ;).
Then, another couple of years later, adolescence struck and guess what - manga manga! :) Despite the fact that it's not on my favorite list anymore, it influenced me greatly and even today, it's still rearing its head in my drawings.
And I have to admit, there are some good series out there, especially the cyberpunk stuff. Akira is a classic, and so is Ghost in the Shell. Lesser known, but also really good is Battle Angel Alita. And for some inane reason, I like Spirited Away. There are so many more titles, but these were the highlights. This period would later transgress into video games (Resident Evil, Silent Hill, Final Fantasy, Fatal Frame, Onimusha...).
Eventually, I entered the university and there was a comics library as well. I've read through the entire thing, and that has made me return to the Eurotrash. It's there that I discovered the authors I mentioned in my first post and they brought me back to our little continent :).
So no, I don't have any big comics libraries (I do have complete Suske en Wiske, Blake and Mortimer, Jommeke and De Rode Ridder from a long time ago), I just borrowed most books from libraries. Anyway, sorry for bothering you with my trip down memory lane - I just thought it might be interesting to illustrate how one's taste in comics can change over time... and you never know, in 10 years I might be all over the US comics :) |
| | Sasq
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 156 |
I'm as confused as anyone about the popularity of Manga. The ones I've read tend to be very boring and similar.
Anyway, since I grew up with Marvel before they turned to shite I seem to really like non-standard/good super-hero comics like;
Watchmen (Of course!)
Batman (Year One & Dark Knight Returns by Miller, Killing Joke by Moore)
Animal Man (Grant Morrison)
Daredevil (The reborn story by Miller)
Paul Chadwick's Concrete (I can't recommend this one enough!)
I read comics mostly for the writing/stories so when it comes to artwork I tend to like the more "minimalistic" approach - thats why I don't like most Image comics (and Todd McFairlane in particular - The guy who killed Spider-man!). I'm also no fan of Bisely allthough I can see why others like him. The ones I like are artist like Teddy Kristiansen & Paul Grist - and of course Paul Chadwick, Frank Miller & Terry Moore (who works mostly in Black & White and both write & draw)...
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| | goldfish
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 18 |
Two weeks ago, we were on a weekend out with a bunch of friends and someone prepared a little quiz.
One of the questions was: name 5 album titles of 5 different comic series.
I go, yeah OK this is my cup of tea... Until you really try to remember...
So this frustrated me enormously.
I blamed my failing memory on excessive alcohol abuse. And this got me so depressed I needed a drink...
Ghost in a Shell: good manga, but a bit too cyberpunkish.
Metabarons is written by Jodorovski, fav scenarist for Moebius.
So Moebius does rule supreme (when he publishes a new album, this makes headlines on French television news!).
GDF [L] |
| | Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 338 |
Some of the aritsts/writers/comics I love most are...
Argentina:
Quino (Mafalda etc. etc. etc. etc.)
USA:
Wallace Wood (EC horror stories, MAD Magazine etc.)
Robert Crumb (too many to list)
Carl Barks (numerous Disney comics)
Jeff Smith (Bone)
Bill Sienkiewicz (Elektra: Assassin etc.)
Frank Miller (lots...)
Jim Woodring (Frank)
Mike Mignola (Hellboy)
Will Eisner (Spirit etc.)
Piraro (Bizarro)
UK:
Brian Bolland (Judge Dredd, Camelot 3000, The Killing Joke)
Simon Bisley (Slaine: The Horned God)
Alan Moore (Watchmen, The Killing Joke, Tom Strong etc.)
Neil Gaiman (Sandman, Books of Magic etc.)
Norway/Sweden/Denmark:
Knut Nærum (lots...)
Jason (lots...)
Frode Øverli (Pondus)
Karine Haaland (Streng men urettferdig)
Martin Kellerman (Rocky)
Charlie Christensen (Arne Anka)
Peter Madsen (Valhall)
France/Belgium:
F'Murr (Le Génie des Alpages etc.)
Franquin (Idées Noires, Gaston Lagaffe, Spirou et Fantasio)
Tome & Janry (Le Petit Spirou, Spirou et Fantasio)
Goscinny (Asterix, Lucky Luke, Oumpah-Pah etc.)
Uderzo (Asterix, Oumpah-Pah etc.) |
| | jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Just like _V_ and Matt, I'm not a huge fan of commercial comics. I had numerous Marvel/DC books in my hand, but I never enjoyed in them so much as you seem to. I have read 'Watchmen' and 'Animal Man', but no... I have objections toward the scenery, the characters and, sometimes the storyline manages to wake up my aversion. Well, just not my kind... I often run into unknown script writers/artists in punk fanzines, which beat the hell out of the comic-scene, but they left unnoticed by the masses. That's a shame. You should see practices of the comic-class in Belgrade's Art School. Simply amazing. European and alternative (not underground).
IMHO, the god of alternative comics is Robert Crumb. I recently bought my third album - which was unfortunately, translated to Serbian, so I couldn't enjoy it fully... Anyhow, hardly any other alt comic-books combine original drawing style and sarcastic story-line in such an extraordinary way.
Story-wise, I prefer Italian writers, especially Tiziano Sclavi and his fabulous Dylan Dog. My father was buying the books from the first one, later I continued collecting. After 100-150 issues and several extras and doubles, in the early '90s, the distributions stopped due to the economic situation in the country.
Dylan Dog is a character based on Rupert Everett (yep, the famous gay actor; Dylan is, as far as I'm awared, not a homosexual - at least if I refer to his short relations with females). His side-kick is "Groucho Marx" (a crazy idea, just like Martin Mystere's neanderthal sidekick, Java), who's providing a healthy dose of very interesting and fine humour (Dylan doesn't likes it, though). These horror (or/and science fiction) stories are mostly happening in London. They're creepy, dark, full of tensions, drastic, yet humorous, non-predictable, mature and intelligent. However, I can't describe the atmosphere by words, you have to feel it yourself.
Not to forget two masterworks by Matt Groening. Life in Hell and Jeff & Akbar. Commercial, short, funny, but still dealing with serious social problems. MG might be a pioneer of digging in very delicate themes with the help of his characters, BUT, on a much much higher level of comprehensible humour (not dirty, pervert, forced, underground-absurd) than his "competition". One of the smartest cartoonist with an original style, who managed to utilize his acquaintance for showing up in global public with minimalism in works and still being accepted as the one who could affect the audience the most, even those who do not know his previous works...
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| | Crossfire
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 221 |
Peter Madsen is awesome.. |
| | _V_
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 124 |
I love Holland. Cheese, tulips, windmills, great people, although with a weird Dutch accent and www.comics.nl/cutie/
Did I say I love Holland yet?´ |
| | Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 947 |
For Bilal fans: http://www.immortel-lefilm.com
Personally I think French comics are cooler than any other.
Moebius is my favourite comic artist, in collaboration with Jodorowsky as writer. |
| | cba
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 935 |
Quote: For Bilal fans: http://www.immortel-lefilm.com
Personally I think French comics are cooler than any other.
Moebius is my favourite comic artist, in collaboration with Jodorowsky as writer.
Yeah I saw the film IMMORTEL !, it's cool.. , here in Switzerland I can find an overdosis of Comics... (or BD in French :) )
Niels |
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